MP4-12c

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fiestycolumbian
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MP4-12c

Post by fiestycolumbian » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:06 pm

Just went through the new website:
McLarenautomotive.com

Very interactive, awesome website.

My lust for this car has just gone up a notch  :drool:

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by dp35 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:34 pm

As nice as the MP4-12C is, IMO its McLaren name is its biggest challenge.  When I hear about a new McLaren road car there's only one car that comes to mind. 

I consider the McLaren F1 the greatest road car ever built, with its center driving position, high revving NA V12 engine, cf monocoque, etc.  The only way McLaren could top the F1 would be to produce a modern version of it.  But instead it seems like they've built a more affordable (relatively speaking) supercar.  I'm sure it'll be a great car, but if its not as good as the F1, some of us will be disapointed.  Without a center driving position the 12C already has one strike against it in my book. 
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by WorkingOnIt » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:29 am

I can't find a cite right now, but I had the impression this project was never intended to rival the F1, but instead was designed to be profitable enough to fund development of a future hyper-car.

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by dp35 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:11 am

I agree Working, the problem is that when a McLaren road car is mentioned, only one car comes to mind, and its hard to match. 

I also agree that the MP4-12C website is awesome.

I find it interesting that McLaren is having a go at building their own engine, at the same time that rumors & speculation indicate that Mercedes is starting to like Brawn's F1 team more than McLaren's.  Could this be a hint of McLaren possibly building their own F1 engines in the future? 

I'm sure the 12C will be a fantastic car in every way.  If only it had a center driving position with 2 passenger seats beside/behind the driver...
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by WorkingOnIt » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:58 am

[quote="dp35"]
...If only it had a center driving position with 2 passenger seats beside/behind the driver...
[/quote]

Actually that was the first thing I looked for when production details came out and I was disappointed as well  (which is actually pretty strange since I'm never going to own any McLaren  :) ).

I'm guessing center seating was just not compatible with the relatively more "mass-market" intent.  For one thing, there's the problem of passenger air bags.  Also if you are trying to sell beyond hard core fanatics the issue of looking cool as you exit comes into play.  I read somewhere that the first 2 pages of the F1 manual concerned entering the car, and the next 2 pages were devoted to exiting.
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by fiestycolumbian » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:32 am

[quote="dp35"]
I find it interesting that McLaren is having a go at building their own engine, at the same time that rumors & speculation indicate that Mercedes is starting to like Brawn's F1 team more than McLaren's.  Could this be a hint of McLaren possibly building their own F1 engines in the future? 
[/quote]

I never thought that McLaren and Mercedes would split, but once their contract is up, I think at the end of 2011, I think they both might go their seperate ways, which is a bummer. I am not sure in this financial climate if buying into another team would be the best plan for Mercedes.

As for McLaren, and its new MP4-12c, I think a powerful lightweight engine is the only way to go. Certainly nothing like that exists in Mercedes current arsenal, and their 6.3L AMG engine in their new SLS doesnt fit the lightweight mantra.

I think McLaren want to compete with Ferrari both on and now off the track. Clearly they state that Ferrari is their benchmark. I think the MP4-12c is even better than Ferrari's new 458 Italia, its direct rival.

Not that I will ever have the money to buy one, but I have been a McLaren fan since day one, so this car is great news for the company, IMO. They plan to come out with a supercar like the F1, and a sub 100k car by 2015 as well.

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by benyeats » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:42 am

[quote="fiestycolumbian"]
[quote="dp35"]
I find it interesting that McLaren is having a go at building their own engine, at the same time that rumors & speculation indicate that Mercedes is starting to like Brawn's F1 team more than McLaren's.  Could this be a hint of McLaren possibly building their own F1 engines in the future? 
[/quote]

I never thought that McLaren and Mercedes would split, but once their contract is up, I think at the end of 2011, I think they both might go their seperate ways, which is a bummer. I am not sure in this financial climate if buying into another team would be the best plan for Mercedes.
[/quote]

Their contract won't be up as such, Mercedes own 40% of the team for a start.  Their relationship will certainly change with this change rumoured to be a result of McLaren's road car ambitions differing in philosophy from Mercedes.  Wonder if I will see less Mercs in the McLaren car park next time I visit!

The MP4-12 is certainly ahead of the 458 it has a carbon fibre chassis for a start which is not a feature on any Ferraris short of the Enzo iirc.  Hope McLaren can get the engine reliable if so they have a winner IMO

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by ross » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:03 am

I'm hoping the running costs won't be too scary (for this kind of car anyhow)...I suspect my hopes will be dashed on that front but fingers crossed!

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by dp35 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:49 pm

[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
I'm guessing center seating was just not compatible with the relatively more "mass-market" intent.  For one thing, there's the problem of passenger air bags.  Also if you are trying to sell beyond hard core fanatics the issue of looking cool as you exit comes into play.  I read somewhere that the first 2 pages of the F1 manual concerned entering the car, and the next 2 pages were devoted to exiting.[/quote]

Wouldn't it be nice to have to deal with the "problem" of how to enter/exit your McLaren F1, and to have to read 4 pages about it?  A can't imagine a human looking cooler than one who's exiting the driver's seat of a McLaren F1.

The center driving position has other advantages besides the obviously superior driver's position - the engine's intake can be mounted up over the center of the car, where it naturally wants to be, without hurting visibility; one configuration can be sold anywhere in the world, reducing costs;  it allows room for 2 passengers rather than just 1. 
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by Trigger » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:06 pm

At a recent Trackday, Rowan Atkinson showed me round his F1 and let me have a seat. Very exciting as both my hero (in comedy terms) and my dream car !!! There is a very strict way of opening and closing the door from the seat - only one place to push and pull that worked !!

I think the 3 seat format is perfect - but I think it would be even more of a 'replacement' of the F1 if they did that.

I want one anyway.

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by dp35 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:12 pm

McLaren buying BMW's F1 engine division?

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0722.shtml
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by Bruce Fielding » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:17 pm

Interesting... not a single mention of a certain company in Brixworth...
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by fiestycolumbian » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:57 pm

Pre-production review by Jay Leno:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/drivin ... 961592.ece

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Re: MP4-12c

Post by ross » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:03 pm

A few interesting stats from their launch broadcast this morning:-
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Re: MP4-12c

Post by benyeats » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:13 pm

Really worth watching the launch broadcast if you are interested.
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