Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="KiwiXTR2"]
This is an example of where some of the worse accidents happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvE25pbTCg at about 4:45 into the video, just as my Westie makes a cameo appearance of crawling through the carnage that finished that particular trackday. Video taken from a very nice Honda powered Elise.
[/quote]
Just after Jennian. Same place the car I mentioned go out of shape and swallowed a fence post. Also roughly where this all happened, but the pros do a far more spectacular job...
This is an example of where some of the worse accidents happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvE25pbTCg at about 4:45 into the video, just as my Westie makes a cameo appearance of crawling through the carnage that finished that particular trackday. Video taken from a very nice Honda powered Elise.
[/quote]
Just after Jennian. Same place the car I mentioned go out of shape and swallowed a fence post. Also roughly where this all happened, but the pros do a far more spectacular job...
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="apollyon25"]
Man! this forum is hard work sometimes...
[/quote]
More like you are hard work for being unnecessarily argumentative to the point of contradicting yourself and making false statements.
Obviously a some stage you have been deeply psychological hurt by a boy racer as you can't let that one go despite the fact that MSNZ does not discriminate against sub-cultures.
I know a few boy racers that do not have snot noses, don't work at Macs and whose paint jobs are work 10s of 1000s of dollars.
I just wanted to offer what I had learned from my contact with MSNZ and make a slight correction to your post in that it is not always up to the club. And that regardless of what people assume or tell you the governing body of racing in this country does not discriminate on reasons of gender, race, religion, sub-culture or anything else. The whole thing is safety and liability driven.
Yes you can run as you are at the Controlled Testing Days at Pukekohe. You will get noddys and they are not necessarily boy racers.
Apart from toddling around a track i don't know of anything else that that a TDO or club can offer that does not involve either competition, timing or racing.
I have written to some clubs as well as MSNZ. This is what one sports car club replied:
"Most of our events are for road-going sports cars, such as sealed gymkhanas that the Atom would do well in. We have an Easter sprint at Pukekohe for which the driver needs a Clubsport MANZ licence, and a rollbar on the car."
Yes,different club events call for different MSNZ roll over requirements. Sprints require a rollbar while hill climbs can require a rollcage.
Tracks and clubs do not always have to impose MSNZ rules unless they are running a competition. But which club, track or organiser is not going to cover their arse by not applying such guidelines when they are readily available. To not do so is to leave them self wide open and bend over.
I've been a race convenor, but hell don't take my word for it. Ask one of the hundreds of farmers that wont let you cross their land to hunt or fish anymore.
Anyway you don't need want my input so I'll leave it to you to explain where Occupational Health and Safety fits with TDOs doing what they want and making their own rules.
.
Man! this forum is hard work sometimes...
[/quote]
More like you are hard work for being unnecessarily argumentative to the point of contradicting yourself and making false statements.
Obviously a some stage you have been deeply psychological hurt by a boy racer as you can't let that one go despite the fact that MSNZ does not discriminate against sub-cultures.
I know a few boy racers that do not have snot noses, don't work at Macs and whose paint jobs are work 10s of 1000s of dollars.
I just wanted to offer what I had learned from my contact with MSNZ and make a slight correction to your post in that it is not always up to the club. And that regardless of what people assume or tell you the governing body of racing in this country does not discriminate on reasons of gender, race, religion, sub-culture or anything else. The whole thing is safety and liability driven.
Yes you can run as you are at the Controlled Testing Days at Pukekohe. You will get noddys and they are not necessarily boy racers.
Apart from toddling around a track i don't know of anything else that that a TDO or club can offer that does not involve either competition, timing or racing.
I have written to some clubs as well as MSNZ. This is what one sports car club replied:
"Most of our events are for road-going sports cars, such as sealed gymkhanas that the Atom would do well in. We have an Easter sprint at Pukekohe for which the driver needs a Clubsport MANZ licence, and a rollbar on the car."
Yes,different club events call for different MSNZ roll over requirements. Sprints require a rollbar while hill climbs can require a rollcage.
Tracks and clubs do not always have to impose MSNZ rules unless they are running a competition. But which club, track or organiser is not going to cover their arse by not applying such guidelines when they are readily available. To not do so is to leave them self wide open and bend over.
I've been a race convenor, but hell don't take my word for it. Ask one of the hundreds of farmers that wont let you cross their land to hunt or fish anymore.
Anyway you don't need want my input so I'll leave it to you to explain where Occupational Health and Safety fits with TDOs doing what they want and making their own rules.
.
-
apollyon25
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="wisp"]
More like you are hard work for being unnecessarily argumentative to the point of contradicting yourself and making false statements.
[/quote]
You clearly took my post out of context. As it appears you took the MSNZ regulations out of context.
RTFM.
[quote="wisp"]
Obviously a some stage you have been deeply psychological hurt by a boy racer as you can't let that one go despite the fact that MSNZ does not discriminate against sub-cultures.
I know a few boy racers that do not have snot noses, don't work at Macs and whose paint jobs are work 10s of 1000s of dollars.
[/quote]
WTF are you on about?!?
You seem to have forgotten I went back to varsity after I had worked for a number of years. I spent 4 years with a good couple of thousand teenagers who by and large were boy racers or girl racers...
Your kids may or may not be boy racers - frankly unless their ineptitude hurts me or mine I dont give a flying how they drive.
I have never said that MSNZ or their rules discriminates against them.
RTF posts!
I said that with the additional rules in place it serves to exclude, meaning PURELY FROM A PRACTICALITY POINT OF VIEW a large proportion of the boy racer element are excluded. Given you also dont seem to follow this statement I added that boy racers in the excluded (by not meeting criteria of the event) category, of which I also belong, CAN obtain the necessary modifications and be included.
I thought all this made sense - Clearly not in Wisp-Land.
[quote="wisp"]
I just wanted to offer what I had learned from my contact with MSNZ and make a slight correction to your post in that it is not always up to the club.
[/quote]
I agree its not always up to the club.
The guy that owns the land makes the call. They can impose any stipulations in the hireage they like. This may or may not involve MSNZ. Similarly with the club UNLESS the event, by its definition, falls under the juristiction of MSNZ.
Which was the clarification I was trying to make...
[quote="wisp"]
And that regardless of what people assume or tell you the governing body of racing in this country does not discriminate on reasons of gender, race, religion, sub-culture or anything else. The whole thing is safety and liability driven.
[/quote]
I havent assumed anything of the sort. Nor stated anything of the sort.
Of course MSNZ have their rules in place for safety and liability reasons - I'm not an idiot FFS!
[quote="wisp"]
Yes you can run as you are at the Controlled Testing Days at Pukekohe. You will get noddys and they are not necessarily boy racers.
[/quote]
Drivers are the superset. Noddys are a set of this. Boy racers merely a subset. Boy racers are noddy's but not all noddy's are boy racers. You seem to have a politically-correct bent over this one John. All very defensive of non discrimination of boy racers... were you psychologically hurt by an anti-boy-racer?
Yes its a ridiculous comment...
[quote="wisp"]
Apart from toddling around a track i don't know of anything else that that a TDO or club can offer that does not involve either competition, timing or racing.
[/quote]
Oh FFS! You have had loads of karting experience on track, youve probably done a few track days in your time.
This sort of comment comes across as "Im a driving God and toddling round a track is for the useless"
You KNOW I have not been on a track before.
You KNOW that I have waited frakin ages for this car and only just got it.
You KNOW that I have cashed up my savings to buy it.
I am hardly going to have my first go on a track under a full-on 'play for keeps' race environment with no insurance cover whatsoever, AM I??!!!
[quote="wisp"]
I have written to some clubs as well as MSNZ. This is what one sports car club replied:
"Most of our events are for road-going sports cars, such as sealed gymkhanas that the Atom would do well in. We have an Easter sprint at Pukekohe for which the driver needs a Clubsport MANZ licence, and a rollbar on the car."
Yes,different club events call for different MSNZ roll over requirements. Sprints require a rollbar while hill climbs can require a rollcage.
Tracks and clubs do not always have to impose MSNZ rules unless they are running a competition. But which club, track or organiser is not going to cover their arse by not applying such guidelines when they are readily available. To not do so is to leave them self wide open and bend over.
[/quote]
Now youre agreeing with me?
[quote="wisp"]
I've been a race convenor, but hell don't take my word for it. Ask one of the hundreds of farmers that wont let you cross their land to hunt or fish anymore.
Anyway you don't need want my input so I'll leave it to you to explain where Occupational Health and Safety fits with TDOs doing what they want and making their own rules.
[/quote]
Well, I dont know, frankly I dont care - its not my problem (last time I looked I wasnt a TDO).
OSH probably would simply refer any accidents to MSNZ, I dont know...
However, the fact remains not all track-based events are run under MSNZ rules.
More like you are hard work for being unnecessarily argumentative to the point of contradicting yourself and making false statements.
[/quote]
You clearly took my post out of context. As it appears you took the MSNZ regulations out of context.
RTFM.
[quote="wisp"]
Obviously a some stage you have been deeply psychological hurt by a boy racer as you can't let that one go despite the fact that MSNZ does not discriminate against sub-cultures.
I know a few boy racers that do not have snot noses, don't work at Macs and whose paint jobs are work 10s of 1000s of dollars.
[/quote]
WTF are you on about?!?
You seem to have forgotten I went back to varsity after I had worked for a number of years. I spent 4 years with a good couple of thousand teenagers who by and large were boy racers or girl racers...
Your kids may or may not be boy racers - frankly unless their ineptitude hurts me or mine I dont give a flying how they drive.
I have never said that MSNZ or their rules discriminates against them.
RTF posts!
I said that with the additional rules in place it serves to exclude, meaning PURELY FROM A PRACTICALITY POINT OF VIEW a large proportion of the boy racer element are excluded. Given you also dont seem to follow this statement I added that boy racers in the excluded (by not meeting criteria of the event) category, of which I also belong, CAN obtain the necessary modifications and be included.
I thought all this made sense - Clearly not in Wisp-Land.
[quote="wisp"]
I just wanted to offer what I had learned from my contact with MSNZ and make a slight correction to your post in that it is not always up to the club.
[/quote]
I agree its not always up to the club.
The guy that owns the land makes the call. They can impose any stipulations in the hireage they like. This may or may not involve MSNZ. Similarly with the club UNLESS the event, by its definition, falls under the juristiction of MSNZ.
Which was the clarification I was trying to make...
[quote="wisp"]
And that regardless of what people assume or tell you the governing body of racing in this country does not discriminate on reasons of gender, race, religion, sub-culture or anything else. The whole thing is safety and liability driven.
[/quote]
I havent assumed anything of the sort. Nor stated anything of the sort.
Of course MSNZ have their rules in place for safety and liability reasons - I'm not an idiot FFS!
[quote="wisp"]
Yes you can run as you are at the Controlled Testing Days at Pukekohe. You will get noddys and they are not necessarily boy racers.
[/quote]
Drivers are the superset. Noddys are a set of this. Boy racers merely a subset. Boy racers are noddy's but not all noddy's are boy racers. You seem to have a politically-correct bent over this one John. All very defensive of non discrimination of boy racers... were you psychologically hurt by an anti-boy-racer?
Yes its a ridiculous comment...
[quote="wisp"]
Apart from toddling around a track i don't know of anything else that that a TDO or club can offer that does not involve either competition, timing or racing.
[/quote]
Oh FFS! You have had loads of karting experience on track, youve probably done a few track days in your time.
This sort of comment comes across as "Im a driving God and toddling round a track is for the useless"
You KNOW I have not been on a track before.
You KNOW that I have waited frakin ages for this car and only just got it.
You KNOW that I have cashed up my savings to buy it.
I am hardly going to have my first go on a track under a full-on 'play for keeps' race environment with no insurance cover whatsoever, AM I??!!!
[quote="wisp"]
I have written to some clubs as well as MSNZ. This is what one sports car club replied:
"Most of our events are for road-going sports cars, such as sealed gymkhanas that the Atom would do well in. We have an Easter sprint at Pukekohe for which the driver needs a Clubsport MANZ licence, and a rollbar on the car."
Yes,different club events call for different MSNZ roll over requirements. Sprints require a rollbar while hill climbs can require a rollcage.
Tracks and clubs do not always have to impose MSNZ rules unless they are running a competition. But which club, track or organiser is not going to cover their arse by not applying such guidelines when they are readily available. To not do so is to leave them self wide open and bend over.
[/quote]
Now youre agreeing with me?
[quote="wisp"]
I've been a race convenor, but hell don't take my word for it. Ask one of the hundreds of farmers that wont let you cross their land to hunt or fish anymore.
Anyway you don't need want my input so I'll leave it to you to explain where Occupational Health and Safety fits with TDOs doing what they want and making their own rules.
[/quote]
Well, I dont know, frankly I dont care - its not my problem (last time I looked I wasnt a TDO).
OSH probably would simply refer any accidents to MSNZ, I dont know...
However, the fact remains not all track-based events are run under MSNZ rules.
-
apollyon25
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
How about you post all the information you have John?!
If you have talked to MSNZ then clearly they have a view - what is it?
I based my comments on my interpretation of what the regulations state and from my discussions with various TDO's and with Fraser Cars.
I'll bolt on a roll bar, but I will never weld up my chassis like Ferrit.
I intend to crawl around a track before I walk and before I run - surely this makes sense?!?!
Doesnt it?
If you have talked to MSNZ then clearly they have a view - what is it?
I based my comments on my interpretation of what the regulations state and from my discussions with various TDO's and with Fraser Cars.
I'll bolt on a roll bar, but I will never weld up my chassis like Ferrit.
I intend to crawl around a track before I walk and before I run - surely this makes sense?!?!
Doesnt it?
-
KiwiXTR2
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
Not particularly wishing to enflame the debate, but anyone who has had any significant dealings with MSNZ knows that it's not just objective safety that motives them.
Their actions over the years clearly indicate that they are also motivated by:
- Sustaining their own local monopoly
- Maintaining their own regulations rather than judiciously adopting the regulations of other bigger, more experienced, and better funded countries.
- Prioritizing their own organizational risk over the reasonable needs and expectations of the drivers they are supposed to serve.
Progressive is not a word that could be associated with MSNZ
Their actions over the years clearly indicate that they are also motivated by:
- Sustaining their own local monopoly
- Maintaining their own regulations rather than judiciously adopting the regulations of other bigger, more experienced, and better funded countries.
- Prioritizing their own organizational risk over the reasonable needs and expectations of the drivers they are supposed to serve.
Progressive is not a word that could be associated with MSNZ
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
Is it the authorities?
Is it the trackday organisers?
Or is it the tracks?
If it's the first, then on private land, surely you can do what you like.
If it's the last, then you're scuppered.
If it's the TDO's then why not organise your own trackday and have whatever rules you like?
Alternatively, start a pressure group as there must be other marques that aren't allowed who would band together with you. Or find out who is allowed without roll bars and lobby. Lobby the sports authority, or better yet, lobby the government about restrictive practices.
[/quote]
Bruce,
In answer to your questions:
It is the authorities, namely MotorSport New Zealand (MSNZ), who insist on roll bars and cages.
MSNZ is the sole authority appointed by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) to regulate motor sport in New Zealand.
They require a roll bar as mandatory equipment on any open road registered vehicles for ClubSport Events. This includes Autocross, Standing Sprints (single car) and Motorkhanas.
A roll cage is mandatory in all vehicles when carrying a passenger in Speed Events.
Further more Roll Protection homologation (approval) by MSNZ is mandatory. All vehicles fitted with roll protection shall have a MotorSport NZ approval certificate contained within the vehicleâ??s logbook. The standard Atom roll bar is not MSNZ homologated as far as I am aware.
Clubs and track owners do not have to run MSNZ sanctioned events but it limits them to what they can actually do and therefore the participants they will attract. MSNZ states one of their aims to be "To provide simple and effective rules to govern the sport respecting as and where appropriate the FIA Sporting Code and NZ Legislation." Any TDO or club still has to comply to the later.
Having drivers sign a waiver does still not protect the club officials or TDO from being prosecuted by the Occupational Health Safety (OSH), a government department responsible for safety.
IMO one of the best events to test yourself without having to back off for slower cornering traffic or risk a pile up due to someone else spinning is the Standing Sprint (single car) event. I think an AAOC NZ TDO would probably require a MSNZ permit. I have yet to gather all the info on the options available.
edit: Targa note.
It was mentioned in an earlier post that events like the NZ Dunlop Targa require a full MSNZ approved roll cage.
For the record, Atoms are not able to enter the Dunlop Targa as they do not comply to Rule 4.11 of Section 2.
This rule states that vehicles can not have a power to weight ratio where the weight of the car is less than 4.5kg per kilowatt of engine power.
A 220HP Atom is 164 kW with a dry weight of 456 kg. This equates to 2.7kg/kW.
Is it the authorities?
Is it the trackday organisers?
Or is it the tracks?
If it's the first, then on private land, surely you can do what you like.
If it's the last, then you're scuppered.
If it's the TDO's then why not organise your own trackday and have whatever rules you like?
Alternatively, start a pressure group as there must be other marques that aren't allowed who would band together with you. Or find out who is allowed without roll bars and lobby. Lobby the sports authority, or better yet, lobby the government about restrictive practices.
[/quote]
Bruce,
In answer to your questions:
It is the authorities, namely MotorSport New Zealand (MSNZ), who insist on roll bars and cages.
MSNZ is the sole authority appointed by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) to regulate motor sport in New Zealand.
They require a roll bar as mandatory equipment on any open road registered vehicles for ClubSport Events. This includes Autocross, Standing Sprints (single car) and Motorkhanas.
A roll cage is mandatory in all vehicles when carrying a passenger in Speed Events.
Further more Roll Protection homologation (approval) by MSNZ is mandatory. All vehicles fitted with roll protection shall have a MotorSport NZ approval certificate contained within the vehicleâ??s logbook. The standard Atom roll bar is not MSNZ homologated as far as I am aware.
Clubs and track owners do not have to run MSNZ sanctioned events but it limits them to what they can actually do and therefore the participants they will attract. MSNZ states one of their aims to be "To provide simple and effective rules to govern the sport respecting as and where appropriate the FIA Sporting Code and NZ Legislation." Any TDO or club still has to comply to the later.
Having drivers sign a waiver does still not protect the club officials or TDO from being prosecuted by the Occupational Health Safety (OSH), a government department responsible for safety.
IMO one of the best events to test yourself without having to back off for slower cornering traffic or risk a pile up due to someone else spinning is the Standing Sprint (single car) event. I think an AAOC NZ TDO would probably require a MSNZ permit. I have yet to gather all the info on the options available.
edit: Targa note.
It was mentioned in an earlier post that events like the NZ Dunlop Targa require a full MSNZ approved roll cage.
For the record, Atoms are not able to enter the Dunlop Targa as they do not comply to Rule 4.11 of Section 2.
This rule states that vehicles can not have a power to weight ratio where the weight of the car is less than 4.5kg per kilowatt of engine power.
A 220HP Atom is 164 kW with a dry weight of 456 kg. This equates to 2.7kg/kW.
Last edited by wisp on Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
KiwiXTR2
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="wisp"]edit: Targa note.
It was mentioned in an earlier post that events like the NZ Dunlop Targa require a full MSNZ approved roll cage.
For the record, Atoms are not able to enter the Dunlop Targa as they do not comply to Rule 4.11 of Section 2.
This rule states that vehicles can not have a power to weight ratio where the weight of the car is less than 4.5kg per kilowatt of engine power.
A 220HP Atom is 164 kW with a dry weight of 456 kg. This equates to 2.7kg/kW.
[/quote]
I haven't done Targa for about 10 years but when I was looking at it for my Westfield I 'thought' that the power was at the wheels (including rubber) and the weight included all fluids and an allowance for driver & co-driver. You can then ballast the car with steel if you're close.
Without doing the calcs I'm guessing the amount of ballast needed to get an Atom 220 within the regulation would be huge and too dangerous.
The killer for me was the need to have a modified cage that would deflect any No.8 wires fences from decapitating driver & co-driver.
It was mentioned in an earlier post that events like the NZ Dunlop Targa require a full MSNZ approved roll cage.
For the record, Atoms are not able to enter the Dunlop Targa as they do not comply to Rule 4.11 of Section 2.
This rule states that vehicles can not have a power to weight ratio where the weight of the car is less than 4.5kg per kilowatt of engine power.
A 220HP Atom is 164 kW with a dry weight of 456 kg. This equates to 2.7kg/kW.
[/quote]
I haven't done Targa for about 10 years but when I was looking at it for my Westfield I 'thought' that the power was at the wheels (including rubber) and the weight included all fluids and an allowance for driver & co-driver. You can then ballast the car with steel if you're close.
Without doing the calcs I'm guessing the amount of ballast needed to get an Atom 220 within the regulation would be huge and too dangerous.
The killer for me was the need to have a modified cage that would deflect any No.8 wires fences from decapitating driver & co-driver.
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="KiwiXTR2"]
Without doing the calcs I'm guessing the amount of ballast needed to get an Atom 220 within the regulation would be huge and too dangerous.
[/quote]
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
Without doing the calcs I'm guessing the amount of ballast needed to get an Atom 220 within the regulation would be huge and too dangerous.
[/quote]
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
-
NathanE
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="wisp"]
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
[/quote]
I'll volunteer if you pay for the flights
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
[/quote]
I'll volunteer if you pay for the flights
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="Mr.Toad"]
[quote="wisp"]
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
[/quote]
I'll volunteer if you pay for the flights
[/quote]
Actually, I lied. It's 57kg so you'll have to save your own fare.
[quote="wisp"]
It's approximately 282kg of ballast or a co-driver that's eaten more than his share of pies.
[/quote]
I'll volunteer if you pay for the flights
[/quote]
Actually, I lied. It's 57kg so you'll have to save your own fare.
-
apollyon25
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
The NZ Targa has a Tour stage which doesnt need the cage and weight restriction though...
The 2007 event also had a timed tour as well altough this may have required a full or half cage. I didnt bother looking into it any further as the delays with my car meant I missed the event entirely.
The 500HP car is supposed to be 500kg right?
500kg/373kW ~ 1.3kg/kW so you'd have to add 1178kg to get 1678kg/373kW = 4.5
You were right the first time John, +282kg needed for the 220HP car.
Update:
The Taupo trackday I was planning on attending has abandoned the format which would have operated under the MSNZ umbrella. So I have a trackday to go to!
Yay!
The 2007 event also had a timed tour as well altough this may have required a full or half cage. I didnt bother looking into it any further as the delays with my car meant I missed the event entirely.
The 500HP car is supposed to be 500kg right?
500kg/373kW ~ 1.3kg/kW so you'd have to add 1178kg to get 1678kg/373kW = 4.5
You were right the first time John, +282kg needed for the 220HP car.
Update:
The Taupo trackday I was planning on attending has abandoned the format which would have operated under the MSNZ umbrella. So I have a trackday to go to!
Yay!
-
KiwiXTR2
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="apollyon25"]
Update:
The Taupo trackday I was planning on attending has abandoned the format which would have operated under the MSNZ umbrella. So I have a trackday to go to!
Yay!
[/quote]
Which one is it? I might see you there
Update:
The Taupo trackday I was planning on attending has abandoned the format which would have operated under the MSNZ umbrella. So I have a trackday to go to!
Yay!
[/quote]
Which one is it? I might see you there
-
wisp
Re: Who insists on roll bars in NZ?
[quote="KiwiXTR2"]
I haven't done Targa for about 10 years but when I was looking at it for my Westfield I 'thought' that the power was at the wheels (including rubber) and the weight included all fluids and an allowance for driver & co-driver. You can then ballast the car with steel if you're close.
[/quote]
For the power to weight ratio the HP is taken at the flywheel. I am not sure if a 220 is less than the conversion of 164kW.
Minimum weight does allow for driver & co-driver but it does not state that minimum weight is used for the power to weight calculation. The rule only mentions "vehicle weight" only.
Minimum weight is calculated as:
456kg - production (showroom) weight. This could be more if the weight needs to include some fluids. Fuel in most cases is not.
160kg - crew i.e. driver and co-driver.
65kg - dispensation for LVVT vehicles
681kg - Minimum weight allowed
If minimum weight was used for the calculation it would stack up like this....
A 164kw (220) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 738kg. The difference is 57kg.
A 182kw (245) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 819kg. The difference is 138kg.
A 223kw (300) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 1003kg. The difference is 322kg.
otherwise the result would be....
A 164kw (220) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 738kg. The difference is 282kg.
A 182kw (245) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 819kg. The difference is 363kg.
A 223kw (300) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 1003kg. The difference is 547kg.
The Mark1 at 95kW is quids in. The bolt-on roll cage, that is MSNZ approved, is a real put off.
I haven't done Targa for about 10 years but when I was looking at it for my Westfield I 'thought' that the power was at the wheels (including rubber) and the weight included all fluids and an allowance for driver & co-driver. You can then ballast the car with steel if you're close.
[/quote]
For the power to weight ratio the HP is taken at the flywheel. I am not sure if a 220 is less than the conversion of 164kW.
Minimum weight does allow for driver & co-driver but it does not state that minimum weight is used for the power to weight calculation. The rule only mentions "vehicle weight" only.
Minimum weight is calculated as:
456kg - production (showroom) weight. This could be more if the weight needs to include some fluids. Fuel in most cases is not.
160kg - crew i.e. driver and co-driver.
65kg - dispensation for LVVT vehicles
681kg - Minimum weight allowed
If minimum weight was used for the calculation it would stack up like this....
A 164kw (220) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 738kg. The difference is 57kg.
A 182kw (245) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 819kg. The difference is 138kg.
A 223kw (300) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 1003kg. The difference is 322kg.
otherwise the result would be....
A 164kw (220) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 738kg. The difference is 282kg.
A 182kw (245) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 819kg. The difference is 363kg.
A 223kw (300) car @ 4.5kg/kW needs to weigh 1003kg. The difference is 547kg.
The Mark1 at 95kW is quids in. The bolt-on roll cage, that is MSNZ approved, is a real put off.
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