INFO Needed: mechanic to Help me in IVA

[Totoro]

Hello,
I need some help.
I've found a pretty interesting (racing) car.
It's the race/track version of a street legal car and could be "reasonably priced".
I am thinking about a pretty long and complex operation to make it street legal throughout Europe.
That is :
- Get a VIN in the UK
- Apply for IVA in the UK (getting it "street legal" in the UK, at least)
- Taking it to Germany and apply for TUV. This because it seems it's the only way to get a new/fresh COC...
- Finally getting it "street legal" all over Europe.

What I really need? Suggestion of a really good (possibly the best) mechanic specialized in making/modificate a car sufficiently to get through the IVA process.

Can anyone help me?

[autobackup]

Totoro

Get in touch with my good friend Phil Cotrell at :

http://www.jaguarreplicas.com/
Tel : 0044-118 971 2091
MOB : +44-7710-123756
Email : info@jaguarreplicas.com

- he may possibly be able to help if he has the time available - he and his son built absolutely beautiful hand-built hand beaten Aluminium bodied replica Jaguars (Jaguar running gear) from scratch - which, I believe, are mostly sold to the USA.

-  he has extensive experience with both building and getting individually produced cars through IVAs. Even if he can't do the work himself he may well be able to put you in touch with someone suitable who could?

When you contact him tell him Paul (Cyprus) suggested that you contact him for help!

[Monza]

To be clear : You'll never obtain any COC with an individual approval. Atoms 2, 3 or 3.5 will never be street legal all over Europe as you hope. IVA in UK yes, IVA in Germany for old cars yes but recent ones i don't think so because of exhaust émissions.

[Totoro]

Thank you Monza,
actually I've found in another forum someone who ha is lon grip.
That is, first road registering the car in the UK, thereafter going to TUV in Germany (again to register the car in Germany), where after all checks TUV issued a COC for the car (not from the producer, right from TUV). With the COC he was finally able to register in Italy.
About the emissions. The car has many different configurations from 330 to 390 HP, just going with different "electronic setup" (in Italy we call it "Mapping").
Maybe tuned to the lower end should help in meeting the emission limits.
Otherwise could think about contacting the producer of the car and getting the pieces added to the Road going model, eventually retrofitting them on the car. Probably the CAT.
Should end up in an Ariel Atom fashion, with the possibility of a CAT bypass

[Monza]

i have a little  experience to of these homologations process for the Atoms and i can tell you that if the TUV has issued a COC after an individual approval it's a serious mystake or more certainly wrong information you have.
I hope succes to your project as you describe it in your post but unfortunately there is no chance to succeed concerning the COC ...

[Totoro]

Once again thank you for you info.
I'll check in Germany with TUV the actual situation and get a confirmation from them either way. The info was pretty recent (one or two years old).
Indeed my Atom dates back to 2009 (former owner) and I bought it already in italy.

Other way is to get a COC from the producer for one of their street legal cars and work out with them if they can bring the car to same COC standards ed produce one for me.

[Monza]

it seems you don't understand very well : no COC for Atom for any model, year, etc ....
You can ask ARIEL factory of course and they'll answer you : no COC because it doesn't exist.
Just for your information i'm the French Ariel dealer.
I understand that this information is not good for your project but it's just the right information to give you, sorry.

[Totoro]

Thank you once again.
I clearly understood your words. I will keep it in mind for the future.
Just one question : how do you get Ariel Atoms on the road in France? Just to figure out a similar way in Italy.
Otherwise this would mean that in the future it will be nearly impossible to get an italian plate for "New" Ariels; that is, we will be able to import just the cars already within EU. This would make my car "pretty precious", at least in Italy.

The good news is that my project is NOT for an Ariel, but for another car (I would call it an Ariel with a roof) that is build within EU. As much as I know they already have a VERY limited number of cars on the road in Europe and eventually in the USA. So I can hope to find some way with the producer to get a COC (since I suppose they have to produce such documents to sell their cars in EU)

[autobackup]

Totoro

Monza is quite correct - cars produced in the UK come with either a COC (Certificate of Conformity) OR an IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) but NOT both!

Basically the major mass production car manufacturers go for a COC as every car is built on a production line to an approved specification and therefore do not have to be individually tested (other than quality control of course) which would be both impracticable and prohibitively expensive.

Small 'hand built' car manufacturers such as Ariel (or small volume/kit car manufacturers) have to take every car when completed along to a VOSA centre to be individually tested and, if passed, it will achieve an IVA Certificate. (in the case of a 'kit car' the owner/builder has to do this when they have completed the car to get it 'road legal')

- basically, as Monza has told you, you cannot have BOTH a COC AND an IVA for the same car under UK/EU rules

[Monza]

As it is not for an Ariel :
in theory, you'll not be able to obtain a COC for a used race model of a road legal car, even if the others similar road legal cars have a COC. The reason is that you'll need to try to obtain the road registration (in every country) through "Individual" procedure and from this , there no legal way to obtain a COC.
The only solution i can see is give teh race car back to the factory so that they can make it conform to the road legal cars produced and ask for a COC , but i would be (very) surprised if they could, 100% legaly, do it.
Good luck.

[Totoro]

Thanks a lot to all of you.
First I need to check here in Italy, IF I can get a car "road registered", that is with an Italian Plate just with an IVA, or if I need a full COC (EU). As much as I know I need a full COC. Maybe it could work with a "national COC" from other EU countries
First; the car I am looking after is NOT built in the UK.
Thus I could try to import it in the UK and get it somehow road registered as a LHD car, a "kit car", or "scratch built"... this means it should adhere to IVA. That means proper lights, emissions and all the matter. Most things should be not to difficult to reach. Probably the main difficult thing is the emissions.
Before IVA I will need VIN (since I think it has no number on the chassy)
As I understand IVA means NO COC, in the UK. This kind of cars has no hope to get a COC, but should be able to get a IVA.
I also know that most of the "odd imports" (that is USA cars, Kit Cars and low volume) in Italy generally have to "pass through" Germany. That is, Germans seem to be much more prone to "road register strange/odd cars". Being inside the EU, the Italians are obliged to register a car that has already been registered in Germany, even if it's a car that they would NOT register directly. Sounds strange, BUT here it works this way.
Also; as much as I know in Germany there's NO IVA...they should have eventually a sort of "German COC" (valid only inside Germany). It's just a matter of "name of the papers". In the UK it's called IVA, in Germany it becomes "German Coc, which should be issued by the authority proofing the car. Thus when receiving a car from the UK road registered with an IVA, they have to substitute it with a local/German COC (That is they withhold the UK IVA and give you a German/national COC in change).
At this point the most is done. First option... I take papers to Italy... show them and just say "It's ok for the Germans, so you have to accept those papers and issue italian papers"; in the worst option they will ask for small modifications. Second option, "leave the car in Germany", that is register the car with a German leasing company and personally lease and use it (pretty diffused in Italy, mostly to avoid speed fines)


@ Monza. Could you please explain me the way you get Ariels road registered/street legal in France?

[Totoro]

What is still difficult to me to understand is the following.
Which are the main difficulties in taking a track car, modify it sufficently to present it to get a VIN, thereafter apply for a IVA (respecting all the prescriptions for an IVA for LHD Vehicles/Personal Import/Amateur Built car). All these three ways should be open. It IS a LHD. It will be personally imported. It should be possible to produce all the papers and photos  needed to present it as "amateur built car".
As much as I know a prototype of the "Street legal" version is already driving around Europe with a UK plate... that is it's UK Road registered as a sort of prototype (for advertising and promoting the car to customers throughout Europe).
With the needed mods I could try to register it as second/different version of that prototype

[autobackup]

Totoro

I have had a word today with Phil Cotrell of Replica Jaguars and he tells me that he has successfully had cars accepted for registration in Italy with an UK IVA but has had no success whatsoever in registering cars in Germany.

He suggests that you contact him directly (his contact details are in a previous post of mine in this thread) and he can talk you through what he has achieved in the past, and what might be possible in regard to getting a car with an UK IVA registered in Italy.

Phil has been involved in the UK racing scene for years, is fully conversant with EU current registration regulations/possibilities and would be fully capable, if his schedule allows, to assist you to do whatever you wish!!

[Osky]

Hi Totoro,
I'm italian.
I'm not so expert, but I know that you can register a car in Italy if the car has the IVA approval.
If you need more information, in Italy there is a very good company that can do the job for you (if it is possible, of course).
In italy there are many UK cars (with IVA) registered, for example: MK, Atom (not so many ...  ), with LHD or RHD, etc
If you need more information, I'm here! 

[Totoro]

Thank you Autobackup.
Will contact him coming week. Now I have to solve the last small problem with my Ariel to start a great season here.
I've made some research and found out that there should be some way to get car registered, both with UK IVA and otherwise.
Just remembering/thinking about small volume producers here in Italy (Like Spada) which are able to get their cars somehow road registered. I will also try to ask them to share their "Chef's secret".
Anyway there will be some work to do. First of all the lights. I'll have to check the difference between the track and the road car. Hope the lights are present, otherwise there will be a lot of work to do and money to invest (risking to making the project senseless).