Chat: Eddie FourFather Hill Atom II Ecotec Performance Upgrades

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Eddie,are these replacement cams hydraulic?  I've been chatting with a few Ecotec people and if you are going north of 8k rpms, builders are switching to solid roller setups.

[FourFather]

[quote="Positron"]
Be sure to check the exhaust hex for correct orientation. They ground mine from two intake blanks and did not reorient it. It'll run 1/2 flat off if you +1 the sensor but it'll throw a code and disable your rev limiter and who knows what else.

Best to use a 12mm allan socket and a big cheater to reorient.
[/quote]

Very good tip-thank you!

[FourFather]

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
Eddie,are these replacement cams hydraulic?  I've been chatting with a few Ecotec people and if you are going north of 8k rpms, builders are switching to solid roller setups.
[/quote]

They are hydraulic, and the RPM range they quoted for the grind I'm getting is 3500 to 8000, and at this point I don't plan more than that.

Shifting gears a bit, do you know if any of those neutral balance shafts are lathed down out of the stockers? I have a lathe here that should make that a pretty simple do-it-yourself deal, if there is enough on-center stock to do that. I took them out, but did not look at them closely, or with that in mind.

[DarthChicken]

yes, the kit I have is just the stockers milled off.  The other important part of that install is the sleeves blocking the oil passages.

You can buy just the sleeves here:

http://www.levelzeromotorsports.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=51&osCsid=173db029b7f1dd0b955127bab28ff9fb

[Speedytec]

Neutral shafts are i.m.h.o. new, non-counterweighted replacement shafts. ($$)

The balance-shaft-delete-kits are just axle stubs to carry the chainwheels.  (Can be machined from standard shafts)
Like above, make sure to block off the rear bearing with a special sleeve. (Or just knock the bearing 7.5mm further into the block so the oil passage is blocked...  )

3rd option is to fabricate a "short chain" version where the idler gears are completely deleted. Nice, but more work and $$'s

[FourFather]

(Or just knock the bearing 7.5mm further into the block so the oil passage is blocked...  )

Now, why in the world wasn't I smart enough to think of that!

Thank you!

[hondahamster]

Somebody needs to get me that Ariel poster!!! I have asked TMI, and even Shinoo, but still cannot find one. This is a definite must for the garage and trailer 
Mr Hill you need to get me one of these!!! and i will clean your atom at every trackday  . Win Win    Are you coming to WCA 2? you have to come to Laguna. 

Love this thread of your atom re-build.  , i like how on one of the earlier pictures, you atom is "laying" on a soft doggy rug 
-HamSter

[FourFather]

Isn't that a cool poster! So far, the only way I was able to get one is to become an Atom dealer, and agree to buy several cars!  :o Maybe I ought to ask TMI if there isn't a less expensive way to get one of those posters--

I won't make it to WCA 2, but if I was there, I know I would LOVE it!!

Glad you are enjoying the build/modification thread- it is a fun project for me, and I can hardly wait to get it going again!

Eddie


[quote="hondahamster"]
Somebody needs to get me that Ariel poster!!! I have asked TMI, and even Shinoo, but still cannot find one. This is a definite must for the garage and trailer  :tu:
Mr Hill you need to get me one of these!!! and i will clean your atom at every trackday  :D . Win Win    Are you coming to WCA 2? you have to come to Laguna.  

Love this thread of your atom re-build.  :tu:, i like how on one of the earlier pictures, you atom is "laying" on a soft doggy rug  :laugh:
-HamSter
[/quote]

[FourFather]

[quote="Positron"]
Be sure to check the exhaust hex for correct orientation. They ground mine from two intake blanks and did not reorient it. It'll run 1/2 flat off if you +1 the sensor but it'll throw a code and disable your rev limiter and who knows what else.

Best to use a 12mm allan socket and a big cheater to reorient.
[/quote]

I had Comp Cams send me the hex inserts separately, and I indexed the exhaust one and pressed it in myself. It was a pretty snug press fit, and I used Red Locktite for insurance. I checked my indexing against the stock cam after the pressing, and it was less than one degree off from the stocker.  I came up with a pretty simple way to do this indexing, and if anyone is interested, I'll describe "How I Did It".

Eddie

[positron]

[quote="FourFather"]

if anyone is interested, I'll describe "How I Did It".

Eddie
[/quote]

Yep yep yep...

[FourFather]

I bolted the cam gear to the original cam, and clamped it lightly in a bench vise, so the camshaft is horizontal. Then ground an allen wrench to be a zero clearance fit in the original hex, inserted in the hex and laid a straightedge across the "L" of the allen wrench, to set a digital level gage on. Then levelled the allen wrench by moving the loosely clamped gear. Once it was level, I clamped it solidly in the vise.

Then unbolted the original cam, bolted the "hexless" new cam into the gear that is solid in the vise, put the new, loose, hex insert on the allen wrench, held the allen wrench level using the digital level, and lightly bumped the hex insert into the cam. An extra set of hands would have been really "handy" here, but I held the insert/straightedge/level with one hand , and used a 1/8" drift to just hold the insert in place and level, while I put down the level, removed the allen, and picked up a hammer to bump the insert in just enough to hold it in place. Then a level check to make sure it did not move-(it didn't), and then remove the cam to take to the press, RED locktite in the cam bore and on the O.D. of the insert, and press it home.

Then recheck the original cam/hex back in the gear that is still in the vise--still good and level--then check the new cam with the freshly pressed hex. They both read 00.something, so within one degree of each other. 

I believe it took longer to write this out, than it did to do the job-

Eddie 

[positron]

Thanks, much better than the way I had to do it.. 

[silver]

Eddie, I was re-looking at your dynos from Darth's tune to your tune versus my tune.

Darth's tune AFR is 10
Your tune AFR is 12+ upwards to 13 in some areas
My tune is 11.5

Can you provide insight to why different AFR (not really including Darth's but your revised tune after 22 pulls versus mine....I'm curious if you had some pulls below 12 AFR and decided to lean it out for better performance?

[DarthChicken]

Cause he's a madman and is running methanol and not afraid to bust stuff 

[silver]

[quote="DarthChicken"]
Cause he's a madman and is running methanol and not afraid to bust stuff 
[/quote]

thanks that's what I was wondering, if it's safer to run leaner with meth..............................which explains why you say you'd blow it up if you ran out of meth on the track....I learn