Mk1 Technical / Upgrade Thread

[AtomMadStew]

In about a motorbike engine in an atom, anyone done that yet? Last time i asked simon saunders it hadn't been done.

[NathanE]

see dpcars.net for a v8 bike engine solution.

[AtomMadStew]

Can't wait for the 500!

[wisp]

[quote="AtomMadStew"]
In about a motorbike engine in an atom, anyone done that yet? Last time i asked simon saunders it hadn't been done.
[/quote]

Really? There have been a couple of weird engine setups in the Atom. Take this for example....

http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php/top ... l#msg63024

I'm sure there is also a picture of one with a bike engine in it somewhere, I just can't find it at present.

[rlucking]

[quote="benyeats"]
Land Rover developed a different head gasket that can be fitted to all K 1.8s (actually all K series) the so called multi layer steel gasket which should be more reliable although in the MGF failures are not unknown.
[/quote]

It's not *just* a new head gasket, there is a new strengthened oil rail too - I think they bolts are done up a bit tighter.

The annoying thing is that Rover could have fixed the underlying cooling problem in a few hours, if they'd felt the urge, but it's been a while since I read up on it all

Rich

[DADOH]

Here's a hayabusa engined atom

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/ ... s-palatov/

[wisp]

[quote="DADOH"]

Here's a hayabusa engined atom

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/ ... s-palatov/
[/quote]

Yes. Dennis is a forum member and the car is referred to as Bikini... http://www.dpcars.net/atom/index.htm

http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php/topic,5630.0.html

[wisp]

[quote="Richard Lucking"]
[quote="benyeats"]
Land Rover developed a different head gasket that can be fitted to all K 1.8s (actually all K series) the so called multi layer steel gasket which should be more reliable although in the MGF failures are not unknown.
[/quote]

It's not *just* a new head gasket, there is a new strengthened oil rail too - I think they bolts are done up a bit tighter.

The annoying thing is that Rover could have fixed the underlying cooling problem in a few hours, if they'd felt the urge, but it's been a while since I read up on it all

Rich
[/quote]

I knew about the oil rail I just did not see the need to mention the extra detail as Stu is a mechanic and I assumed he would know.

From the research I have done there is a lot of minor things that were not done that let the engine down. For example the openings to the water ways in the head were not cleaned out properly after casting. A few minutes with a die grinder can greatly improve the flow of coolant. Also the single biggest cause of temperature related gasket failure is the position of the thermostat.  Apparently if you address the minor issues the motor is an extremely good, lightweight, race engine.

[benyeats]

[quote="wisp"]
[quote="Richard Lucking"]
[quote="benyeats"]
Land Rover developed a different head gasket that can be fitted to all K 1.8s (actually all K series) the so called multi layer steel gasket which should be more reliable although in the MGF failures are not unknown.
[/quote]

It's not *just* a new head gasket, there is a new strengthened oil rail too - I think they bolts are done up a bit tighter.

The annoying thing is that Rover could have fixed the underlying cooling problem in a few hours, if they'd felt the urge, but it's been a while since I read up on it all

Rich
[/quote]

I knew about the oil rail I just did not see the need to mention the extra detail as Stu is a mechanic and I assumed he would know.

From the research I have done there is a lot of minor things that were not done that let the engine down. For example the openings to the water ways in the head were not cleaned out properly after casting. A few minutes with a die grinder can greatly improve the flow of coolant. Also the single biggest cause of temperature related gasket failure is the position of the thermostat.  Apparently if you address the minor issues the motor is an extremely good, lightweight, race engine.

[/quote]

The thermostat position is the biggest cause as far as I can tell as well as underspecified cooling systems, per the MGF.  Hopefully the Atom cooling system is well specified for the engine but not enough cars exist to have a statistically meaninful idea.

Ben

[wisp]

[quote="benyeats"]
The thermostat position is the biggest cause as far as I can tell as well as underspecified cooling systems, per the MGF.  Hopefully the Atom cooling system is well specified for the engine but not enough cars exist to have a statistically meaninful idea.

Ben
[/quote]

Apparently the existing setup "does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds". Seeing that the Atom radiator is at the front of the car I imagine this could pose a problem. There is a PRT thermostat offered as a fix for Freelanders but not suggested as the best solution for a track car. The best is to fit the thermostat to the output side of the engine. The owners of K powered Lotus can use a Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat Kit from Elise Parts that costs £129.95+VAT or one from QED for £125.00+VAT. A similar setup should be able to be duplicated for the Atom.

[benyeats]

[quote="wisp"]
[quote="benyeats"]
The thermostat position is the biggest cause as far as I can tell as well as underspecified cooling systems, per the MGF.  Hopefully the Atom cooling system is well specified for the engine but not enough cars exist to have a statistically meaninful idea.

Ben
[/quote]

Apparently the existing setup "does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds". Seeing that the Atom radiator is at the front of the car I imagine this could pose a problem. There is a PRT thermostat offered as a fix for Freelanders but not suggested as the best solution for a track car. The best is to fit the thermostat to the output side of the engine. The owners of K powered Lotus can use a Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat Kit from Elise Parts that costs £129.95+VAT or one from QED for £125.00+VAT. A similar setup should be able to be duplicated for the Atom.

[/quote]

Yes have thought about that thermostat, might fit one if I have to take the engine out for other work (have not figured out if the engine needs to come out to remove the gearbox)

Ben

[rlucking]

[quote="wisp"]
Apparently the existing setup "does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path,
[/quote]

I've spent a while reading up on all this over the years (but my F is still on its original head gasket, somehow!)

Part of the problem with the F is the size of the radiator - it overcools the water, and can lead to the thermostat opening and closing repeated, the thermal shock leads to the gasket failing. This is also why HGF is more common in the winter... I'm not sure if the radiator in the atom is as much of a problem though?

Have you looked into fitting a booster pump? (I'll read back through the previous pages and check now...)

Rich

[wisp]

[quote="benyeats"]
Yes have thought about that thermostat, might fit one if I have to take the engine out for other work (have not figured out if the engine needs to come out to remove the gearbox)

Ben
[/quote]

From what we have learnt it's not safe to assume your MK1 is the same as mine but my guess would be that it's easier to take engine/gearbox, out the top, as one and then split them. I think even if you could get the g/box casing off the differential housing you would need to dismantle the LR suspension to get it out. Then if you need to get at the clutch as well you'd be in for a difficult time.

The remote thermostat options are installed in-line into the pipework so could be fitted with the motor in place.

[benyeats]

[quote="wisp"]
[quote="benyeats"]
Yes have thought about that thermostat, might fit one if I have to take the engine out for other work (have not figured out if the engine needs to come out to remove the gearbox)

Ben
[/quote]

From what we have learnt it's not safe to assume your MK1 is the same as mine but my guess would be that it's easier to take engine/gearbox, out the top, as one and then split them. I think even if you could get the g/box casing off the differential housing you would need to dismantle the LR suspension to get it out. Then if you need to get at the clutch as well you'd be in for a difficult time.

The remote thermostat options are installed in-line into the pipework so could be fitted with the motor in place.


[/quote]

Yep I think removing the whole lot will be easier, but both options probably require a suspension strip down to remove the driveshafts.  Don't think I will risk it before the Euro trip since there is technically no real need to do it !

Ben

[benyeats]

Right, my latest upgrade plan involves a 150BHP VVC engine which I have just bought.  Never done an engine swap before but how hard can it be......

Ben