[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="uvii"]
...Bedford is a cheap day, with (too many) cheap cars, and poor driving standards; IMO.
...At Bedford most corners are nothing more than "random" cones with little consequence of not making the corner.
[/quote]
Just a couple of points for accuracy...
1. No track is cheap. It costs what it costs and that cost is shared by the cars on it. MSV's cheapest track is also its most challenging (in my view) which is Cadwell. If a TDO decides to put loads of cars on it, it can offer it at a lower price per car. If a TDO does that, I personally would stay away...
2. Most corners at Bedford are absolutely defined. If you know the lines, you know just how good a track it is. Yes there's no change of elevation, but that's true of other tracks... Many started out as aerodromes, so not much opportunity for changes in elevation - Silverstone isn't exactly hilly! I will grant you that there is little consequence of not making the corners at Bedford. And if you're taking a valuable piece of machinery to the limit, I don't see that as a bad thing.
Lastly I find it odd that a racer would attend track days when the time would be better and more usefully spent on test days, which are not hugely more expensive than trackdays but where overtaking on corners is fine and more importantly for setup, timing is allowed.
I agree, Hedge... this thread is definitely odd...
[/quote]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
Ben
Time has come
-
uvii
Re: Time has come
Not quite sure what is strange.
My reference to cheap trackdays is wrt the fixed cost of booking your track time, not what the organiser pays. There is at least a £600 spread between some days and that makes some days cheap in absolute terms to the attendee. As has been pointed out, at the very least, it keeps numbers low, and I value that more then the cost delta between the two. It is also my opinion that the standard of driving is **much** better, others may disagree. I will continue to avoid cheap days as I simply don't like them.
Silverstone isn't hilly but the track is well defined regardless of elevation. At Bedford, within a hour, a number of coned corners were no more as the cones had been hit, driven over, etc. It just felt like a cheap golf course. There is something addictive wrt the nervous energy required to drive a tight demanding circuit. It may be the sense of relief at the end of the day when/if you manage to drive your car home in one piece
Un till entropy finally maxes out, I think its fine to have differing opinions on stuff. Some people actually voted Labour ;D
My reference to cheap trackdays is wrt the fixed cost of booking your track time, not what the organiser pays. There is at least a £600 spread between some days and that makes some days cheap in absolute terms to the attendee. As has been pointed out, at the very least, it keeps numbers low, and I value that more then the cost delta between the two. It is also my opinion that the standard of driving is **much** better, others may disagree. I will continue to avoid cheap days as I simply don't like them.
Silverstone isn't hilly but the track is well defined regardless of elevation. At Bedford, within a hour, a number of coned corners were no more as the cones had been hit, driven over, etc. It just felt like a cheap golf course. There is something addictive wrt the nervous energy required to drive a tight demanding circuit. It may be the sense of relief at the end of the day when/if you manage to drive your car home in one piece
Un till entropy finally maxes out, I think its fine to have differing opinions on stuff. Some people actually voted Labour ;D
-
Terry Kennedy
Re: Time has come
[quote="uvii"]
My reference to cheap trackdays is wrt the fixed cost of booking your track time, not what the organiser pays. There is at least a £600 spread between some days and that makes some days cheap in absolute terms to the attendee. As has been pointed out, at the very least, it keeps numbers low, and I value that more then the cost delta between the two. It is also my opinion that the standard of driving is **much** better, others may disagree. I will continue to avoid cheap days as I simply don't like them.[/quote]
Here in the US, we don't have a much of a distinction between "tune & test" and a track day.
However, we do have a lot of tracks that are hideously expensive to rent. Want a weekend date booked a year in advance - think 6 figures.
We also have the "noise nosies" who decided to build or buy property adjoinng a track and then start complaining. This leads the track to mandate strict noise limits unless they are willing to get involved in a land-use suit with their new neighbors.
Hallett seems to be the perfect track - it's in the middle of nowhere, so no complaints. Incredibly friendly folks run it, and it is amazingly inexpensive to book exclusively. My paying for whole day w/ minimal extra support (track-provided towing and fire control only) cost me only a few hundred $ more than what I paid speedventures for Laguna Seca. And I got to nominate 4 other friends to be out on the track with me. Run as long as you like, then come in for a break or to tweak the tune / check the tire temps, adjust wings, etc. and go right out again.
My reference to cheap trackdays is wrt the fixed cost of booking your track time, not what the organiser pays. There is at least a £600 spread between some days and that makes some days cheap in absolute terms to the attendee. As has been pointed out, at the very least, it keeps numbers low, and I value that more then the cost delta between the two. It is also my opinion that the standard of driving is **much** better, others may disagree. I will continue to avoid cheap days as I simply don't like them.[/quote]
Here in the US, we don't have a much of a distinction between "tune & test" and a track day.
However, we do have a lot of tracks that are hideously expensive to rent. Want a weekend date booked a year in advance - think 6 figures.
We also have the "noise nosies" who decided to build or buy property adjoinng a track and then start complaining. This leads the track to mandate strict noise limits unless they are willing to get involved in a land-use suit with their new neighbors.
Hallett seems to be the perfect track - it's in the middle of nowhere, so no complaints. Incredibly friendly folks run it, and it is amazingly inexpensive to book exclusively. My paying for whole day w/ minimal extra support (track-provided towing and fire control only) cost me only a few hundred $ more than what I paid speedventures for Laguna Seca. And I got to nominate 4 other friends to be out on the track with me. Run as long as you like, then come in for a break or to tweak the tune / check the tire temps, adjust wings, etc. and go right out again.
-
Bruce Fielding
- Posts: 16320
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: Time has come
[quote="benyeats"]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
[/quote]
It sounds terribly un-PC but in general from experience alone it's true. It also = rubbish cars which explode and drip oil everywhere leading to long periods under red flags...
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
[/quote]
It sounds terribly un-PC but in general from experience alone it's true. It also = rubbish cars which explode and drip oil everywhere leading to long periods under red flags...
Ariel Atom Owners Club founder, based in Central London
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="uvii"]
Yeah, I agree. Normally do RMA or Goldtrack but sometimes, I just want to squeeze in another day...
[/quote]
I think RMA are a bunch of c****................just my experience. And my god, Graham's briefings are worse than an Atomclub AGM on 75 valium
Yeah, I agree. Normally do RMA or Goldtrack but sometimes, I just want to squeeze in another day...
[/quote]
I think RMA are a bunch of c****................just my experience. And my god, Graham's briefings are worse than an Atomclub AGM on 75 valium
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="Trigger"]
The best TDO is GRRC....but then I am biased !
TBH I have used RMA and it is only for experienced trackday enthusiasts. Graham seemed fine to me but I have to say on a wet day like it was at Silverstone last August their way of working is plain dangerous. They run days basis overtaking where ever and whenever you want. The car in front stays on line and the overtaking car goes around them. I was slithering sideways with a car either side of me going round Luffield....sure wasnt safe. 3 cars were written off badly on that day which I have never seen before.
I have used Easytrack and Bookatrack for years and find the guys running it very very good. But ultimately it depends on the number of cars, type of cars and which track. I am sure it is the same with CD.
T
[/quote]
RMA=Rolls, Maserati, Aston. If you don't have one of each, as well as 8 GT3's and seven houses in Virginia Water, they hate you. I got balck flagged for smoking a bong and having tattoos on circuit.
It's a class thing!
The best TDO is GRRC....but then I am biased !
TBH I have used RMA and it is only for experienced trackday enthusiasts. Graham seemed fine to me but I have to say on a wet day like it was at Silverstone last August their way of working is plain dangerous. They run days basis overtaking where ever and whenever you want. The car in front stays on line and the overtaking car goes around them. I was slithering sideways with a car either side of me going round Luffield....sure wasnt safe. 3 cars were written off badly on that day which I have never seen before.
I have used Easytrack and Bookatrack for years and find the guys running it very very good. But ultimately it depends on the number of cars, type of cars and which track. I am sure it is the same with CD.
T
[/quote]
RMA=Rolls, Maserati, Aston. If you don't have one of each, as well as 8 GT3's and seven houses in Virginia Water, they hate you. I got balck flagged for smoking a bong and having tattoos on circuit.
It's a class thing!
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="Trigger"]
TBH I have used RMA and it is only for experienced trackday enthusiasts.
[/quote]
Yup. Agree completely there. It's NOT for novices. I've been going to RMA since before it was RMA, so I know Graham pretty well and I have to say that I like the way he runs these days. You are expected to use your own common sense and caution, not to rely on rules or molly coddling.
The beauty of having lots of TDOs as there are today is that you can pretty much take your choice and drive most tracks... but there is still one golden rule: the less you pay, the more wankers there will be on track.
[/quote]
not true........RMA day at RAF Odiham was dear and I have never beeen on circuit with so many twats in cars they clearly had no scooby about how to drive. Classic case in point...............Geezer in a GTR35 who was hitting 180 on the straight, diving in and cutting everyone up where it narrows for the right hander and then getting overtaken by me in a Clio and some Welsh dude in a bog standard 205 GTI. All the offs were people in mega bucks motors.
It's all a matter of how one defines "wankers" IMHO.......... I personally like some of the chav posse. Stick most of them in a GT3 and they will probably drive it as well as the silver spooners who have them.
[quote="Trigger"]
TBH I have used RMA and it is only for experienced trackday enthusiasts.
[/quote]
Yup. Agree completely there. It's NOT for novices. I've been going to RMA since before it was RMA, so I know Graham pretty well and I have to say that I like the way he runs these days. You are expected to use your own common sense and caution, not to rely on rules or molly coddling.
The beauty of having lots of TDOs as there are today is that you can pretty much take your choice and drive most tracks... but there is still one golden rule: the less you pay, the more wankers there will be on track.
[/quote]
not true........RMA day at RAF Odiham was dear and I have never beeen on circuit with so many twats in cars they clearly had no scooby about how to drive. Classic case in point...............Geezer in a GTR35 who was hitting 180 on the straight, diving in and cutting everyone up where it narrows for the right hander and then getting overtaken by me in a Clio and some Welsh dude in a bog standard 205 GTI. All the offs were people in mega bucks motors.
It's all a matter of how one defines "wankers" IMHO.......... I personally like some of the chav posse. Stick most of them in a GT3 and they will probably drive it as well as the silver spooners who have them.
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="Trigger"]
...and the Clio / Megane crowd......?
[/quote]
hahahahahaha
Homo!
Sorry, Hunk
...and the Clio / Megane crowd......?
[/quote]
hahahahahaha
Homo!
Sorry, Hunk
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="uvii"]
...Bedford is a cheap day, with (too many) cheap cars, and poor driving standards; IMO.
...At Bedford most corners are nothing more than "random" cones with little consequence of not making the corner.
[/quote]
Just a couple of points for accuracy...
1. No track is cheap. It costs what it costs and that cost is shared by the cars on it. MSV's cheapest track is also its most challenging (in my view) which is Cadwell. If a TDO decides to put loads of cars on it, it can offer it at a lower price per car. If a TDO does that, I personally would stay away...
2. Most corners at Bedford are absolutely defined. If you know the lines, you know just how good a track it is. Yes there's no change of elevation, but that's true of other tracks... Many started out as aerodromes, so not much opportunity for changes in elevation - Silverstone isn't exactly hilly! I will grant you that there is little consequence of not making the corners at Bedford. And if you're taking a valuable piece of machinery to the limit, I don't see that as a bad thing.
Lastly I find it odd that a racer would attend track days when the time would be better and more usefully spent on test days, which are not hugely more expensive than trackdays but where overtaking on corners is fine and more importantly for setup, timing is allowed.
I agree, Hedge... this thread is definitely odd...
[/quote]
Croft is flat as a pancake and if you think that is a shitecircuit, then you are a definite big girl's blouse.
[quote="uvii"]
...Bedford is a cheap day, with (too many) cheap cars, and poor driving standards; IMO.
...At Bedford most corners are nothing more than "random" cones with little consequence of not making the corner.
[/quote]
Just a couple of points for accuracy...
1. No track is cheap. It costs what it costs and that cost is shared by the cars on it. MSV's cheapest track is also its most challenging (in my view) which is Cadwell. If a TDO decides to put loads of cars on it, it can offer it at a lower price per car. If a TDO does that, I personally would stay away...
2. Most corners at Bedford are absolutely defined. If you know the lines, you know just how good a track it is. Yes there's no change of elevation, but that's true of other tracks... Many started out as aerodromes, so not much opportunity for changes in elevation - Silverstone isn't exactly hilly! I will grant you that there is little consequence of not making the corners at Bedford. And if you're taking a valuable piece of machinery to the limit, I don't see that as a bad thing.
Lastly I find it odd that a racer would attend track days when the time would be better and more usefully spent on test days, which are not hugely more expensive than trackdays but where overtaking on corners is fine and more importantly for setup, timing is allowed.
I agree, Hedge... this thread is definitely odd...
[/quote]
Croft is flat as a pancake and if you think that is a shitecircuit, then you are a definite big girl's blouse.
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="uvii"]
...Bedford is a cheap day, with (too many) cheap cars, and poor driving standards; IMO.
...At Bedford most corners are nothing more than "random" cones with little consequence of not making the corner.
[/quote]
Just a couple of points for accuracy...
1. No track is cheap. It costs what it costs and that cost is shared by the cars on it. MSV's cheapest track is also its most challenging (in my view) which is Cadwell. If a TDO decides to put loads of cars on it, it can offer it at a lower price per car. If a TDO does that, I personally would stay away...
2. Most corners at Bedford are absolutely defined. If you know the lines, you know just how good a track it is. Yes there's no change of elevation, but that's true of other tracks... Many started out as aerodromes, so not much opportunity for changes in elevation - Silverstone isn't exactly hilly! I will grant you that there is little consequence of not making the corners at Bedford. And if you're taking a valuable piece of machinery to the limit, I don't see that as a bad thing.
Lastly I find it odd that a racer would attend track days when the time would be better and more usefully spent on test days, which are not hugely more expensive than trackdays but where overtaking on corners is fine and more importantly for setup, timing is allowed.
I agree, Hedge... this thread is definitely odd...
[/quote]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
Ben
[/quote]
How much you reckon u would get for your Atom then Ben?
I mean as a second hand sale rather than to hire out as a skip that is!
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="uvii"]
...Bedford is a cheap day, with (too many) cheap cars, and poor driving standards; IMO.
...At Bedford most corners are nothing more than "random" cones with little consequence of not making the corner.
[/quote]
Just a couple of points for accuracy...
1. No track is cheap. It costs what it costs and that cost is shared by the cars on it. MSV's cheapest track is also its most challenging (in my view) which is Cadwell. If a TDO decides to put loads of cars on it, it can offer it at a lower price per car. If a TDO does that, I personally would stay away...
2. Most corners at Bedford are absolutely defined. If you know the lines, you know just how good a track it is. Yes there's no change of elevation, but that's true of other tracks... Many started out as aerodromes, so not much opportunity for changes in elevation - Silverstone isn't exactly hilly! I will grant you that there is little consequence of not making the corners at Bedford. And if you're taking a valuable piece of machinery to the limit, I don't see that as a bad thing.
Lastly I find it odd that a racer would attend track days when the time would be better and more usefully spent on test days, which are not hugely more expensive than trackdays but where overtaking on corners is fine and more importantly for setup, timing is allowed.
I agree, Hedge... this thread is definitely odd...
[/quote]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
Ben
[/quote]
How much you reckon u would get for your Atom then Ben?
I mean as a second hand sale rather than to hire out as a skip that is!
-
John H
Re: Time has come
hahahaha
I love this forum...............let's see if we can mention testicle waxing in this thread!
I love this forum...............let's see if we can mention testicle waxing in this thread!
Re: Time has come
[quote="uvii"]
Come on wasp, I have a right to dislike what I want. Im not asking others to follow my lead.
[/quote]
Sorry but you mis-understand me.
I couldn't give a toss what floats your boat as I am sure you feel the same about other track users, we are all different and that makes it more interesting. I was not having a pop at you even though I don't agree with your sentiment about the circuit, I do agree with your point ref too many cars can be a proper pain in the arse and it's true that cheap cars can be an issue but that said I have seen tons of expensive motors driven by total w*nkers who appear to believe that wealth=ability.
I really like the fact that you have stirred up a discussion, my point really was that we got to slating RMA just from the fact that you did not like the cones at Bedford. I seriously love the fact that almost every thread goes bonkers at some point and it's a lottery as to how long it is before it turns into a slanging match..
Some of the owners on this forum have/do raced/race professionally and do not share your view.
This makes life interesting, no?
Nothing is personal, we are all passionate car enthusiasts and we regularly fight. It is easily sorted by a couple of beers at the end of the day.
Next year I would love another trip to Spa and maybe do the Nurbugring F1 circuit too. The more the merrier.
Cheers,
Stu
Come on wasp, I have a right to dislike what I want. Im not asking others to follow my lead.
[/quote]
Sorry but you mis-understand me.
I couldn't give a toss what floats your boat as I am sure you feel the same about other track users, we are all different and that makes it more interesting. I was not having a pop at you even though I don't agree with your sentiment about the circuit, I do agree with your point ref too many cars can be a proper pain in the arse and it's true that cheap cars can be an issue but that said I have seen tons of expensive motors driven by total w*nkers who appear to believe that wealth=ability.
I really like the fact that you have stirred up a discussion, my point really was that we got to slating RMA just from the fact that you did not like the cones at Bedford. I seriously love the fact that almost every thread goes bonkers at some point and it's a lottery as to how long it is before it turns into a slanging match..
Some of the owners on this forum have/do raced/race professionally and do not share your view.
This makes life interesting, no?
Nothing is personal, we are all passionate car enthusiasts and we regularly fight. It is easily sorted by a couple of beers at the end of the day.
Next year I would love another trip to Spa and maybe do the Nurbugring F1 circuit too. The more the merrier.
Cheers,
Stu
Atom 4, Gr Yaris
-
John H
Re: Time has come
[quote="wasp"]
[quote="uvii"]
Come on wasp, I have a right to dislike what I want. Im not asking others to follow my lead.
[/quote]
Sorry but you mis-understand me.
I couldn't give a toss what floats your boat as I am sure you feel the same about other track users, we are all different and that makes it more interesting. I was not having a pop at you even though I don't agree with your sentiment about the circuit, I do agree with your point ref too many cars can be a proper pain in the arse and it's true that cheap cars can be an issue but that said I have seen tons of expensive motors driven by total w*nkers who appear to believe that wealth=ability.
I really like the fact that you have stirred up a discussion, my point really was that we got to slating RMA just from the fact that you did not like the cones at Bedford. I seriously love the fact that almost every thread goes bonkers at some point and it's a lottery as to how long it is before it turns into a slanging match..
Some of the owners on this forum have/do raced/race professionally and do not share your view.
This makes life interesting, no?
Nothing is personal, we are all passionate car enthusiasts and we regularly fight. It is easily sorted by a couple of beers at the end of the day.
Next year I would love another trip to Spa and maybe do the Nurbugring F1 circuit too. The more the merrier.
Cheers,
Stu
[/quote]
there's no hyphen in misunderstand........................just in case you are mis-under-stood
[quote="uvii"]
Come on wasp, I have a right to dislike what I want. Im not asking others to follow my lead.
[/quote]
Sorry but you mis-understand me.
I couldn't give a toss what floats your boat as I am sure you feel the same about other track users, we are all different and that makes it more interesting. I was not having a pop at you even though I don't agree with your sentiment about the circuit, I do agree with your point ref too many cars can be a proper pain in the arse and it's true that cheap cars can be an issue but that said I have seen tons of expensive motors driven by total w*nkers who appear to believe that wealth=ability.
I really like the fact that you have stirred up a discussion, my point really was that we got to slating RMA just from the fact that you did not like the cones at Bedford. I seriously love the fact that almost every thread goes bonkers at some point and it's a lottery as to how long it is before it turns into a slanging match..
Some of the owners on this forum have/do raced/race professionally and do not share your view.
This makes life interesting, no?
Nothing is personal, we are all passionate car enthusiasts and we regularly fight. It is easily sorted by a couple of beers at the end of the day.
Next year I would love another trip to Spa and maybe do the Nurbugring F1 circuit too. The more the merrier.
Cheers,
Stu
[/quote]
there's no hyphen in misunderstand........................just in case you are mis-under-stood
-
benyeats
Re: Time has come
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="benyeats"]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
[/quote]
It sounds terribly un-PC but in general from experience alone it's true. It also = rubbish cars which explode and drip oil everywhere leading to long periods under red flags...
[/quote]
Big difference between rubbish cars and cheap cars.
[quote="John H"]
How much you reckon u would get for your Atom then Ben?
I mean as a second hand sale rather than to hire out as a skip that is!
[/quote]
What I paid for it and probably more than the depreciation on yours in year one.
Ben
[quote="benyeats"]
Cheap cars = rubbish drivers is the main information I have gathered from this thread. Everyday is a school day.
[/quote]
It sounds terribly un-PC but in general from experience alone it's true. It also = rubbish cars which explode and drip oil everywhere leading to long periods under red flags...
[/quote]
Big difference between rubbish cars and cheap cars.
[quote="John H"]
How much you reckon u would get for your Atom then Ben?
I mean as a second hand sale rather than to hire out as a skip that is!
[/quote]
What I paid for it and probably more than the depreciation on yours in year one.
Ben
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