This week's Toyota woes

[WorkingOnIt]

I may have to revise my earlier opinion that Toyota will skillfully leverage its long standing good will to quickly emerge from its current troubles.

Criminal investigation starting?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-t ... 5714.story
"The automaker says a New York grand jury and the Los Angeles office of the Securities and Exchange Commission have subpoenaed documents."

Memo boasts about how much money Toyota saved by initially avoiding recalls
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/201 ... ents_N.htm
"An internal Toyota document dated last July says the company saved $100 million in 2007 by getting the government to OK replacing floor mats in 55,000 vehicles as a solution to sudden acceleration complaints.
It's listed under "wins for Toyota — safety group" in the report..."

In a move certain to raise public opinion of car dealers - They claim its all the media's fault.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... ew-media/1

One recipient of a dealer letter is not convinced
http://www.undiplomatic.net/2010/02/18/ ... he-v-word/
"In a stunning show of denial, the dealer even whipped out the V word: "It is unfortunate and unfair that Toyota has fallen victim to aggressive and questionable news coverage"”
...
The dealer wrote, "Two decades of relationships with our customers will not be undone by a few weeks of sensationalized news stories." Not true, but this letter might do it."

[Heywood-Yablowme]

So,the Emperor has no clothes..after all!   No one makes a perfect car. No one. Well..one company comes pretty damn close.....

[DarthChicken]

This is not good

[url]]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100309/ap_ ... away_prius[/url

What worries me, is that this is starting to revolve around the ability to pull data from the ECU.  You watch.. pretty soon somebody will be clamoring for more history in the ECU.  Not to track drivers speeds and how they drive, or to give them tickets, but in the name of safety.  Or that'll be the story to start off with.

American's gave up a lot of freedoms as a result of the patriot act.  I just hope we're smart enough not to fall into the same trap - give me freedom, unless I'm afraid of the boogyman, then feel free to tap my phone and log my driving habits.

Mark my words 

[positron]

(foil hat on) So you didn't know about *OnStar uplinking your system diagnostics, uplinking your GPS coordinates and listening in to your conversation in the cockpit?

[positron]

This one really cracks me up... Toyota's won't stop and GM just stops in the middle of no where and all the doors fly open and when it feels it's safe to proceed it lets you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CasjUOwkdI




maybe *OnStar is letting the aliens probe you... 

[DarthChicken]

Seems to be that's happened to you (to a lesser degree) a few times on the track, hasn't it? 

[positron]

Yeah.. my arse is still a little tender and new things glow in the dark... 

but they left some kickass Romulan ale in the fridge..

[DarthChicken]

Be glad it was the romulan's and not the toyotavestites.

[dp35]

[quote="DarthChicken"]
This is not good

[url]]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100309/ap_ ... away_prius[/url

What worries me, is that this is starting to revolve around the ability to pull data from the ECU.  You watch.. pretty soon somebody will be clamoring for more history in the ECU.  Not to track drivers speeds and how they drive, or to give them tickets, but in the name of safety.  Or that'll be the story to start off with.

American's gave up a lot of freedoms as a result of the patriot act.  I just hope we're smart enough not to fall into the same trap - give me freedom, unless I'm afraid of the boogyman, then feel free to tap my phone and log my driving habits.

Mark my words  [/quote]

I agree completely, unfortunately.

This latest runaway Prius story is really hard to believe.  It seems that average people have traded convenience for control, to the point that they no longer know how to control their vehicles. 

Just give me a good ol fashion clutch pedal, throttle cable, shift linkage, and twist key ignition, and I'll take care of the rest.  While yer at it get rid of the traction control, ABS, airbags, HVAC, doors, roof, interior...

For some reason this all reminds me of my '83 Toyota pickup.  It didn't have cruise control, until I figured out that the jack handle fit perfectly between the seat and throttle pedal.  That came in handy when I was going to school in San Diego and making the 500 mile trip home on a regular basis - 80 mph all the way up Hwy 5 with the throttle jammed.  No worries.

[WorkingOnIt]

[quote="dp35"]
... It seems that average people have traded convenience for control, to the point that they no longer know how to control their vehicles.
[/quote]

Exactly!  -  it seems that most drivers either don't know how to use their (automatic) shifter, or are scared of it.  Coverage of the runaway Lexus that started the current inquiries mentioned that the car was a loaner and neutral on a Lexus might be hard for an unfamiliar driver to find.

The quotes I've seen from drivers after incidents are amazing.  I didn't put it into neutral because "I was afraid the engine would race out of control and destroy itself."  In a TV interview this latest guy in the Prius said both the 911 operative and the highway patrol officer pacing him told him to put it in neutral, but he had never touched the shifter at speed and was "afraid the car would flip".  (The TV soundbite didn't elaborate, but I can only think he meant that he was afraid he'd miss neutral and put it in reverse or park.)

Everybody - take your kids (and/or suspected less skilled driving acquaintances) out to a deserted road and have them practice shifting their automatic into neutral!

[DarthChicken]

Deserted road?  Why?  Don't make it seem like something that's dangerous, its not.  Do it in traffic.  Make it look completely normal and comfortable.  Tempted to shoot a youtube video myself doing it in my truck and put it out there for everybody to see.  Hell, might have my 12 year old reach over and do it, just to make a point. 

Hasn't anybody ever played the game of seeing how far you can coast with your kids in the car with you?  Doesn't anybody do this anymore?

[CalScot]

The guy in the prius yesterday is an idiot. I would not be surprised to find he has a history of insurance claims of one sort or another. It's only a matter of time to find that many have taken advantage of the real problems Toyota has and go for $$ is some form of bogus piggyback legal action.

Not to say there are not some genuine technical problems or cover ups by Toyota, but that guy really needs to loose his license if he can't control that car under the circumstances. What a dick head!

[dp35]

Not only was the San Diego Prius driver afraid to put it in nuetral "because it might flip", he was also afraid to turn the key off because he though he'd lose the steering. 

I smell a rat with this guy.  He's a man that's not too proud to display on national TV how incompetent he is behind the wheel of his car.  He had taken his Prius to the dealer a week or two earlier to have them fix its throttle sticking problem, although it hadn't ever happened.  I read elsewhere that he was caught filing false claims of theft from his house in the past. 
I suspect he either wanted:
a) to sue somebody
b) to be on TV
c) to get rid of his Prius
d) all of the above

Ask yourself - at what age would you have been able to defuse the runaway Prius situation if you were a passenger in the car?  I'm guessing the average of this forum's members would be around age 10 or less.

I'm curious how this guy has survived thus far in this cruel world.  In a perfect world, Darwin would make the most of opportunities like this & improve the species.

Toyota deserves some blame for creating these idiot drivers, by creating cars that are so bland and appliance like, they've lulled people into a false sense of secuity.  Jalopnik.com has cleverly named the Toyota fiasco "When Beige Bites Back".  But ultimately its up to the driver to know how to drive.  The whole personal responsibility thing again.

[WorkingOnIt]

[quote="dp35"]

I smell a rat with this guy...
[/quote]

An interesting thought.  It occurred to me that 94 mph isn't really all that scary fast - the September Lexus reportedly topped 120.  The report linked above does allude to publicity whoring:
"James Sikes, 61, was identified in a 2006 newspaper story as a real estate executive and longtime lottery player who won $55,000 and was selected to appear on a California Lottery TV game show.
He appeared at a news conference quickly after the freeway incident Monday and also spoke to reporters Tuesday at his Toyota dealership, where his car was towed."

[quote="dp35"]
Not only was the San Diego Prius driver afraid to put it in nuetral "because it might flip", he was also afraid to turn the key off because he though he'd lose the steering. 
[/quote]

I assume he's referring to the locking steering column, a valid concern, or am I missing something?

[Heywood-Yablowme]

I had this first hand story  related to me about a Toyota incident. This is from a customer of mine who I have known for over 15 years,and is not a fabricator of tall tales. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.

Paul (ok..that is his real name..) just had a full frame replaced on his Tacoma (last month) and is dropping of his sons car at my place for some work...says to me "you won't believe this story,but it's true,and it JUST happened..."

  "I am dropping off my buddy,Bill, at_______Toyota,where he had earlier left his Tundra for a recall notice on the accelerator issue."Bill" gets in the truck and drives to the end of the parking lot,when the truck accelerates hard enough so he has to slam on the brakes to stop it from going into the street! He then returns to the service dept. and tell them his truck is now accelerating all by itself,when it never had done it before. The mechanic comes out,hops into the truck and proceeds across the parking lot,turns around,accelerates......and plows into the side of a Highlander Hybrid at about 40mph!! There is air bag deployment and the mechanic is injured. The Tundra was a total loss, along with the Highlander. The dealership then offers to replace the Tundra with a brand new one,and gave him $500 for his troubles,and to keep "quiet" about the whole thing."

Paul personally witnessed the whole incident.     Once again,I have known this customer for many years,he is an older gent,and I have never known him to be the kind of person to fabricate anything.

Did the mechanic screw something up..or are there more problems going on at Toyota than meets the eye??
I thought a lot of this recall was BS..but I don't know now...

I also have my doubts about the Prius owner in Ca.,and I think a lot of people are going to go for the 15 minutes of fame...

I do know I will be giving Toyota drivers a point by, asap!