Spoke w/ California smog referee today about the Atom

[Mika_Hakkinen]

After making a few calls this morning, I received a call from a California Smog Referee Supervisor from the station in Huntington Beach, CA late this afternoon.

In short, he stated to me that it is their interpretation the Ariel Atom is sold as a "turn-key" vehicle, therefore must pass smog under 2006 regs. He said he checked the website and there is nothing that appears where you can purchase the chassis seperatley from the drivetrain. Because of that, it is deemed sold as "turn-key" and CAN NOT be allowed to fall under the rules of a "specially constructed vehicle". Among some other things we brushed upon, he also commented how there are "several Nobels sitting in garages gathering dust".

Has anyone clarified whether or not you can purchase the chassis and drivetrain seperately? Since it's 6:30pm Friday night I'm sure they've already left for the weekend, so unless anyone on this board knows already I'll have to wait until Monday to verify.

The Referee stated to me that if Brammo gives me a letter stating such facts that they do indeed sell the chassis/motor seperatley, then what he would do is fax this info to Sacramento to have the powers that be go over that info and make a ruling based on the new information. Doesnt guarantee anything, just that they would review it and release their findings.

Any opinions or comments on this?

*yes after your words of kind (and maybe not so kind) encouragement, I'm attempting to persue the desire of owning an Atom further!

[bolus]

Did you happen to ask him how Jay Leno registered his Atom and has already put a bunch of miles on it?  It bugs me a little that celebrity even has pull at the DMV. 

If you haven't already I would talk to Brammo about this.  After my recent visit it seems like they are very accommodating and you might be able to work out a way to buy the chassis and engine separately.  When I was there I saw atoms with features on them that were not listed on the website.  They wont help with registration and will maintain that it is a track only car but would probably help you purchase it "on paper" in a way that will work. 

[kenazusa]

I personally think it was a mistake to even ask the opinion of this person. There are and will be cars registered in CA if you just "let a sleeping dog lie". I'm sure each individual local branch would handle it the best way they see fit. I don't live in CA, but this does not help the cause.

[cshama]

[quote="bolus"]
Did you happen to ask him how Jay Leno registered his Atom and has already put a bunch of miles on it?  It bugs me a little that celebrity even has pull at the DMV.   :-\



[/quote]

It should bug you a lot more that the DMV are such a bunch of morons.

[nickpoore]

When I spoke to Craig about this..

Craig pointed out that they do not sell anyone in California a car.
They will sell them a car kit, but not an engine.
They will then have GM (or whoever) sell you an engine, and bill you directly for this.
You purchase the "final assembly" option, and then they will ship you the kit.

The kit is basically a non-working car.
You must do work to the car to make it work - DO NOT ask me what, it it up to you and Craig to figure out excacly how much work is necessary.
Once you have finished the mechanical work to link everything up, you will have a working car.

You have therefore purchased the kit from Craig, the engine from GM, and have finished the final assembly yourself.
You will have seperate invoices from Bremmo & GM for the parts - this is a requirement of a kit car.
You will have completed the final assembly yourself - this is a requirement for a kit car.

I would tread lightly here with the smog referee, and say that Bremmo understand the Specially Constructed Vehicle rules in California, that they require a seperate paymet for the engine, that is invoiced directly from the factory, and that they do not complete the final assembly on the car.
You can point out that the web site has a final assembly option, which is used when they do not fully assemble th car.

But tread lightly.

Good luck.

-=Nick=-

[dp35]

[quote="KenAZUSA"]
I personally think it was a mistake to even ask the opinion of this person. There are and will be cars registered in CA if you just "let a sleeping dog lie". I'm sure each individual local branch would handle it the best way they see fit. I don't live in CA, but this does not help the cause.
[/quote]

Ken's right, you don't ASK the smog referee a DMV question, and then get him poking around in Sacramento about it.  It would be a lot smarter to point out the fact that there are several Atoms already licensed and registered in California as SPCN's, and that yours will be exactly the same as those.  Those other Atoms were registered using the SB100 smog exemption, but it might be possible for an Ecotec Atom to pass smog without the SB100.

The smog referee's job has to do with smog issues, not weather or not the car qualifies as a SPCN.  The DMV determines that, and that will have already been done by the time you go to the referee.

The Brammo website doesn't make it clear that they sell the chassis and engine seperately, but if you sign up for the config then you can see the various options for self assembly.  I'm sure the referee didn't bother to do that.

If you're in the LA area, then you might be able to take your Atom to the same referee that dealt with the 2 or 3 other Atoms that have been through the process down there (other than Jay Leno's).  It sounds like you got a hater on the phone.  If so, leave him alone and go find someone more open minded, and don't stir up a bunch of trouble for yourself and others.

[Matt F]

[quote="Mika_Hakkinen"]In short, he stated to me that it is their interpretation the Ariel Atom is sold as a "turn-key" vehicle, therefore must pass smog under 2006 regs.[/quote]

Whoa, there.  Wait a minute.

The Ecotec Atom should meet all 2006 smog regs; it's the same drivetrain as the 2006 Chevy SS Cobalt.  It also has an OBDII port to verify that it's emissions are acceptable.

Don't assume that you have to take a seperate route because of smog regulations.

My word certainly isn't final.  Check what I've said against what CA says, and figure it out for yourself.

[nickpoore]

[quote="dp35"]
If you're in the LA area, then you might be able to take your Atom to the same referee that dealt with the 2 or 3 other Atoms that have been through the process down there (other than Jay Leno's).  It sounds like you got a hater on the phone.  If so, leave him alone and go find someone more open minded, and don't stir up a bunch of trouble for yourself and others.
[/quote]

That sounds like a good idea.
I didn't realize that you could pick your own referee, but it makes sense.
Does anyone know who the referee is?  Certainly worth a trip in my book.

-=Nick=-

[Hellooo Newman]

Mika,since there are a number of Atoms already registered for the road in CA obviously a precedence has been set and therefore you can in fact register the Atom in CA.
If you are serious about getting the Atom I suggest you should visit the Brammo web site and register there, where you would have learned that you can in fact opt for the "Self Assembly Kit -- Owner Installed Drivetrain" option, and install the drivetrain yourself which would allow it to qualify as a kit car. 

It would probably be better for all of us who are trying to register the Atom in CA, not to stir things up with the smog people but instead discuss it with Craig from Brammo or a DMV person who knows about registering kit cars.
You can also Google California kit car or SB100 and get info.
cheers

[Mr.Woolery]

[quote="nickpoore"]
[quote="dp35"]
If you're in the LA area, then you might be able to take your Atom to the same referee that dealt with the 2 or 3 other Atoms that have been through the process down there (other than Jay Leno's).  It sounds like you got a hater on the phone.  If so, leave him alone and go find someone more open minded, and don't stir up a bunch of trouble for yourself and others.
[/quote]

That sounds like a good idea.
I didn't realize that you could pick your own referee, but it makes sense.
Does anyone know who the referee is?  Certainly worth a trip in my book.

-=Nick=-
[/quote]

I would also be VERY VERY indebted to the person who lets us know who the Atom friendly referee is. 

[patentshark]

[quote="Matt F"]

The Ecotec Atom should meet all 2006 smog regs; it's the same drivetrain as the 2006 Chevy SS Cobalt.  It also has an OBDII port to verify that it's emissions are acceptable.

[/quote]

there is a small caveat to that statement.  technically, it may not be the same entire combination of A + B + C + D.  i believe it has at least a different exhaust and intake (not the same C + D as the cobalt).  therefore, while the entire combination may pass the actual physical test, it may not be certified with the little EPA certificates that those california regulators love to see. 

my car hasn't arrived and i don't personally live in california, so i may be wrong.  just passing along something to think about.

[07Atom]

[quote="patentshark"]
[quote="Matt F"]

The Ecotec Atom should meet all 2006 smog regs; it's the same drivetrain as the 2006 Chevy SS Cobalt.  It also has an OBDII port to verify that it's emissions are acceptable.

[/quote]

there is a small caveat to that statement.  technically, it may not be the same entire combination of A + B + C + D.  i believe it has at least a different exhaust and intake (not the same C + D as the cobalt).  therefore, while the entire combination may pass the actual physical test, it may not be certified with the little EPA certificates that those california regulators love to see. 

my car hasn't arrived and i don't personally live in california, so i may be wrong.  just passing along something to think about.
[/quote]

Exactly... additionally, the '06 Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe is using the 205hp/200tq configuration of the engine (pulley & tuning).  If you have an upgraded pulley and you change the timings so that the atom has 300 horsepower, and you get the ceramic coated exhaust and headers, it might add an E + F + G + H that could mess the equation up further.  Anyone know if GM has the 300 hp version of the 2.0L ecotec in any of their cars?  Maybe they're planning to in the future. 

[Matt F]

Nope, nope, nope.  My Supercharged Ecotec Atom passed the PA emissions test.

[Matt F]

[quote="07Atom"]Anyone know if GM has the 300 hp version of the 2.0L ecotec in any of their cars?  Maybe they're planning to in the future. 
[/quote]

GM has planned the Ecotec out to 1400 bhp:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource ... d_book.htm

[07Atom]

[quote="Matt F"]
[quote="07Atom"]Anyone know if GM has the 300 hp version of the 2.0L ecotec in any of their cars?  Maybe they're planning to in the future. 
[/quote]

GM has planned the Ecotec out to 1400 bhp:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource ... d_book.htm
[/quote]

They're not going to put that in a street legal production car though (Would be "fun" in an atom though, hehe, more bhp than weight in lbs).

I wonder if 300HP ecotec atoms are capable of passing california smog tests...