Rover Antics LED lights etc...

[Mobile Centre]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="silver"]
thanks for that link...I just found the perfect reverse light and license plate light....shipped for under 50UK

that converts the last remaining lights on my car to LED and I don't have to replace the melted housing on my reverse light from when my exhaust blew out.
[/quote]

Careful - I'm the person who "also bought" the 80mm square white LED, and it arrived broken (one row of LEDs didn't light). Tim promised to send me a replacement, and a free license plate light for my troubles. Never happened. I got the last one and they weren't re-ordered for ages.
[/quote]

No need to be careful - we made a mistake and did not send out the unit as promised. As soon as your brought it to our attention I picked up the phone to apologise and resolve the situation which I thought I did on 14th May but I see this message was posted on the 19th so I am not aware of any current issue?

[Mobile Centre]

[quote="silver"]
well.....too late for that, cuz I already purchased............bummer...I guess we'll wait and see, and if not delivered I'll have my credit card deny the charge...thanks for the heads up.
[/quote]

We are not in the business of taking money and not sending product your order was shipped within 24 hours.

Tim

[bolus]

yeah, I have no concerns about my order process.  It was shipped and a bunch of extra free LEDs too (I forgot about them,  should have used em for my shift lights).  You shouldnt have any problems Silver

[Mobile Centre]

To the best of my knowledge only one person has suffered failure of these lights which is Darth Chicken who we supplied a replacement set to, he then decided to return them for a refund as Christmas was coming Other than that there have not been any failures! We ordered 100 sets in for the group buy which did not take place, the rest were sold off to Land Rover owners who have not had any problems either.

I understand that the problem is caused by an unbalanced engine subjecting the light to extreme vibration which is outside the normal remit of automotive testing. The lights did not fail through design fault as only one person has actually had this problem so the failure rate is tiny, and the failures were limited to the rear lights only again indicating extreme conditions otherwise all the lights would of failed where as the actual failure rate was something like 0.2% and all of that 0.2% was suffered by Darth Chicken.

We are having the lights re manufactured and over engineered to factor this in by a North American manufacturer instead of in the far east. The lights will not be made by Rover Antics (Go Devices) in China.

[Mobile Centre]

We all make mistakes, mine was that I forgot to send something to Terry Kennedy as promised, as soon as he reminded me I thought i rectified the issue until reading this thread tonight. I called him up on 14th May and apologised, we also discounted his shipping by 50% as a gesture of goodwill on his current order. If this is the bais for being "careful" when dealing with Mobile Centre then maybe I should of saved myself the embarrassment of calling up and admitting I screwed up, and saved the company some money by not discounting shipping by 50% and putting in a free lamp.

Its amazing how one small lapse almost takes you to being an internet fraudster!

[bolus]

I didn't install mine since I have removed the engine balancers like darth did.  And my original lights are still working.  so I did not want to take the time just to see them fall a part. 

I didn't ask for a refund because it was a while after I ordered and the exchange rate changed dramatically since when I ordered.  Plus, they never really failed since I never tried them. 

Like I said, no problems with the order process though    would order again if I needed something

[Mobile Centre]

[quote="bolus"]
I didn't install mine since I have removed the engine balancers like darth did.  And my original lights are still working.  so I did not want to take the time just to see them fall a part. 

I didn't ask for a refund because it was a while after I ordered and the exchange rate changed dramatically since when I ordered.  Plus, they never really failed since I never tried them. 

Like I said, no problems with the order process though    would order again if I needed something
[/quote]

Thanks for the positive customer comments - and if any body wants to return their lights for a full refund then no problem send them back, we would rather refund than have our integrity questioned.

[maverick1]

[quote="Mobile Centre"]
We are having the lights re manufactured and over engineered to factor this in by a North American manufacturer instead of in the far east. The lights will not be made by Rover Antics (Go Devices) in China.
[/quote]
Mobile Centre, can you please post on this site when your new lights are ready for purchase.
I've ordered a couple replacement lights for the time being, but I would rather have the LED's.
cheers

[Mobile Centre]

As long as we have not been banned or put in jail 

I hoping to inspect the new design late June for delivery late July. As before they will be ECE and CE, possibly DOT as well.

The warranty will be four year 40,000 hour no quibble exchange for new.

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="Mobile Centre"]
We all make mistakes, mine was that I forgot to send something to Terry Kennedy as promised, as soon as he reminded me I thought i rectified the issue until reading this thread tonight. I called him up on 14th May and apologised, we also discounted his shipping by 50% as a gesture of goodwill on his current order. If this is the bais for being "careful" when dealing with Mobile Centre then maybe I should of saved myself the embarrassment of calling up and admitting I screwed up, and saved the company some money by not discounting shipping by 50% and putting in a free lamp.

Its amazing how one small lapse almost takes you to being an internet fraudster!
[/quote]

That's not what I said. I did say (earlier up) that you don't charge until you have the units in stock, and that I thought your web site "number in stock" can get out-of-sync with actual inventory (happens to everybody).

Please don't hold me at fault for saying something on the 19th, when you first mentioned the 50% off on the 20th. I don't have a perfect recall of our phone conversation, but as I recall we talked about the problems with the Go Devices units and you suggested an alternate product (the Model 412's) which I subsequently determined wouldn't fit on the Atom. If the subject of the reverse lamp came up, I'm sure the 50% off shipping wasn't mentioned on the phone call.

On the subject of the reverse lamp, on 10-JUL-2008 18:47:12.43 you said you'd be sending me the replacement reverse lamp and a license plate light for free. On 17-NOV-2008 10:22:32.04 I said "I haven't heard anything from you for a while. I know the 4180WM was out of stock for some time, but is it back in stock now?". I didn't hear anything back, and I didn't pursue it as I was having many other Atom problems (my Atom moved a total of 7 miles in 2008).

I was satisfied enough to order a second set of the LED lights on May 2nd. On the 11th I emailed you and asked if it had shipped, since the inventory showed 0 on the web site. We spoke and corresponded a bit on the 13th/14th.

I didn't want to post here that you were offering refunds on light sets (even if installed and not failed), discounted trade-ups to the new style scheduled for July, or discounted shipping, as I didn't understand that that was an offer to all and not just me. Now that you've posted that info here, I see that it is open to all.

I'd have no qualms about ordering a set of the improved lights from Mobile Centre when they become available.

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="Mobile Centre"]
To the best of my knowledge only one person has suffered failure of these lights which is Darth Chicken who we supplied a replacement set to, he then decided to return them for a refund as Christmas was coming Other than that there have not been any failures! We ordered 100 sets in for the group buy which did not take place, the rest were sold off to Land Rover owners who have not had any problems either.

I understand that the problem is caused by an unbalanced engine subjecting the light to extreme vibration which is outside the normal remit of automotive testing. The lights did not fail through design fault as only one person has actually had this problem so the failure rate is tiny, and the failures were limited to the rear lights only again indicating extreme conditions otherwise all the lights would of failed where as the actual failure rate was something like 0.2% and all of that 0.2% was suffered by Darth Chicken.[/quote]

I'm glad to hear that there have only been failures on one car. It is my (possibly incorrect) understanding that Darth had 4 of the originals fail (all on the rear) and then two replacements fail (also rear) and that Barry was unsure if the problem was poor soldering or a vibration problem.

Since the units are sealed, it should be easier to prevent the problem than to fix it once it has happened, assuming that my idea of filling the back with an epoxy or silicone compound will work.

The 80x80 white reverse lamp from Mobile Centre is built like a tank - you could probably drive over it and it would keep working. The electronics on the back are encased in a clear potting compound. I had assumed that the River Runner lights were built the same way. Since the units are sealed, I don't think that Tim / Mobile Centre would have had any reason to cut one open to check, and it probably came as a great surprise that some had failed on Darth's Atom.

The roads here (NY/NJ) are terrible - as I detailed in another topic, I had a suspension component snap in two. While that was at least partially attributable to an incorrect part used by Brammo, some of it was probably due to the roads here. In the summer of 2002, when I drove my new BMW home from the dealer, a pothole actually folded over the flange of one of the car's wheels. Every fall when I take my summer wheels/tires off, I have to send the wheels out to a place to have them checked for trueness and rebuilt.

However, I didn't think that an Atom on the street / track would see shock/vibration as severe as a leaf-spring Land Rover driving on dirt trails, etc. - even the name "River Runners" gives the impression of heavy-duty off-roading.

It seems I was incorrect, as both the Wipac and Perei (Rover OEM) standard lampholders have failed in record numbers on US Atoms. In addition to the lamps popping out of the holders, some have utterly disintegrated as a post earlier in this thread shows.

I look forward to the new units scheduled for July. Certainly, Mobile Centre dealing directly with a US manufacturer will result in better communication than the previous Mobile Centre -> Barry -> China (at least, that's my understanding) system.

[Richard Marler]

Tim, you may find, that if you can make the design a little more aesthetically pleasing, the factory may be interested again. Removing any unnecessary depth and rounding the edges a little, maybe all that is required. Its up to you if you are interested or not, but if you are, then I would speak to Simon at the factory.

[Mobile Centre]

[quote="Richard Marler"]
Tim, you may find, that if you can make the design a little more aesthetically pleasing, the factory may be interested again. Removing any unnecessary depth and rounding the edges a little, maybe all that is required. Its up to you if you are interested or not, but if you are, then I would speak to Simon at the factory.
[/quote]

Thanks for your input - as only 5 or 6 people actually bought these in the end for Atoms makes re tooling at $15000 seem a shot in the dark excuse the pun. Thie original lights were a "joint"venture with Piers Chandler who was to make the backs which never materialised either due to lack of commitment. If somebody wants to pay we will make the light to their requirements no problem. The "factory" is a small volume producer which is why they use off the shelf parts where ever possible. This lamp is made for the Land Rover market as that is where the sales come from the Atom aspect was just a favour basically to Piers / Simon not a commercial venture. Hence why as you can see above I became frustrated.

Any feedback is most welcome.

[Mobile Centre]

Terry - Land Rover upgraded a few years ago to coil springs

The vibration frequency is completely different from off roading to a high revving engine which is why the lights failed. The standard testing environments carried out do not cater for this extreme. This brings us back to engineering a light for the Atom which will make the lamps very expensive. This is why when you go through this forum you find so many people re designing products left right and centre and setting them self up as engineers in their garden sheds which is great as a hobby but not commercially viable otherwise Ariel would of "made" a better component in the first place. The balance of cost versus performance is a tough one, it becomes even tougher in forums where everybody has an opinion and thinks they can go to the local electronics store and buy a few leds for $10 which they can but never bother doing EMC testing , E marking, CE, WEE etc etc I am all for saving some money which is what we tried to do by offering an LED solution which had been tested by Piers on an Atom which we had taken from a different environment but seemed to fit the bill. It has then transpired after some serious mileage the lamps have failed.

At our expense we are re designing the lamps and beefing them up for the Ariel market (a few sets a year) where the current solution actually satisfies 99% of consumers, we may suffer future failures as no body wants to invest in doing the job properly because the investment would never be recouped.

If anybody wants to develop a light we will do it at cost as that is part of what we do, but expect to commit to manufacturer a minimum of 10,000 units or spend $50,000 +.

[Richard Marler]

[quote="Mobile Centre"]
[quote="Richard Marler"]
Tim, you may find, that if you can make the design a little more aesthetically pleasing, the factory may be interested again. Removing any unnecessary depth and rounding the edges a little, maybe all that is required. Its up to you if you are interested or not, but if you are, then I would speak to Simon at the factory.
[/quote]

Thanks for your input - as only 5 or 6 people actually bought these in the end for Atoms makes re tooling at $15000 seem a shot in the dark excuse the pun. Thie original lights were a "joint"venture with Piers Chandler who was to make the backs which never materialised either due to lack of commitment. If somebody wants to pay we will make the light to their requirements no problem. The "factory" is a small volume producer which is why they use off the shelf parts where ever possible. This lamp is made for the Land Rover market as that is where the sales come from the Atom aspect was just a favour basically to Piers / Simon not a commercial venture. Hence why as you can see above I became frustrated.

Any feedback is most welcome.
[/quote]

100% understood. I was only passing on things I have heard. The search for suitable (both aesthetically and practically) lighting, has been a long and generally fruitless one, so we do very much appreciate the efforts you put in.

I wonder how many of the original land rover style lights still get sold for non-land rover applications. Many of the kit car stockists show them on their books (e.g. SVC).