Putting my car back together......

[maverick1]

I have a question. Whenever I have seen soldering on any TV show the person used a product called flux I believe on the metals being soldered. When soldering my wires do I need to use flux??
cheers

[silver]

I believe Flux is used to clean corroded metals, so if your wires are fresh you don't need flux.

[iwantanatom]

flux is what allows the solder to flow (and wick) properly when heated. You can get flux paste and brush it on (say for silver solder when soldering copper pipes), or most normal electrical solder (like what radio shack sells) has tin/lead/flux all in one, so you are good to go without needing flux paste. I strongly suggest you just use the normal stuff.

[DarthChicken]

Mav, I STRONGLY suggest you practice on some extra wire first (stripping the wire, mechanically joining two pieces, soldering them, and heatshrink tubing.. the whole process).  I even more strongly suggest you get somebody to do this for you that has done it before.  Soldering is more of an art than science, and it takes some practice to do it right.

[benyeats]

[quote="DarthChicken"]
Mav, I STRONGLY suggest you practice on some extra wire first (stripping the wire, mechanically joining two pieces, soldering them, and heatshrink tubing.. the whole process).  I even more strongly suggest you get somebody to do this for you that has done it before.  Soldering is more of an art than science, and it takes some practice to do it right.


[/quote]

Its not that hard, as long as you follow the steps that Terry outlined and remember to heat the wire not the solder and you will be fine.  And of course remember to put the heatshrink over the wire before you join them or you are never getting it on there !

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="maverick1"]
I have a question. Whenever I have seen soldering on any TV show the person used a product called flux I believe on the metals being soldered. When soldering my wires do I need to use flux??
[/quote]

Almost all electronic solders have a flux core (think of a very long jelly donut). Solders intended for plumbing are generally solid core and for those you need flux.

There are two types of flux (both in solder and as separate flux) - acid and non-acid (usually rosin). You don't want acid as unless you clean it all off very carefully, it will corrode the wires.

If you go to any place that carries solder and ask for "rosin core solder" you'll get what you need. It comes in a variety of sizes (diameters) and you want one that's as thin as a pencil lead or thinner.

Note that because the government wants to protect us from ourselves, you can no longer buy solder that contains lead. The newer solders have a somewhat higher melting point because of this.

[Alec]

flux is what allows the solder to flow (and wick) properly when heated. You can get flux paste and brush it on (say for silver solder when soldering copper pipes), or most normal electrical solder (like what radio shack sells) has tin/lead/flux all in one, so you are good to go without needing flux paste. I strongly suggest you just use the normal stuff.

Flux also prevents the formation of oxides on the copper wire which can result in what's known as a 'dry joint' where the solder hasn't adhered to the copper correctly.

I pinched this quote from somewhere which might explain it better.

What's soldering flux?

Modern quality electronics solders contain a "flux" resin within the solder. This flux is designed to flow over the job and prevent contact with the atmosphere. Metals, particularly copper when heated tend to "oxidise" and prevent the alloying or good electrical bond between the copper and the solder.

Good solder containing the resin will have resin flowing over the leads and prevent this oxidisation process and as the solder flows the resin is displaced allowing the solder to form an "atomic" bonding with the items being soldered together. A good resin helps to keep the surfaces clean.

Rules for good soldering

Of course some of these rules might seem very obvious but are worth repeating.

 Use a reasonable quality iron of the correct wattage for the job.
 Only use "electronic" resin cored solder of fine gauge.
 Make sure all surfaces to be soldered are "bright, shiny" and thoroughly clean.
 If a mechanical joint, make sure it can "stand alone" before soldering.
 Make sure the solder tip is clean, shiny and properly "wetted".
 Remember the soldering iron tip is only to heat up the surfaces to be soldered.
 Apply the resin cored solder to the heated "job", not to the soldering iron tip.

I think that as long as you get solder intended for electrical use then it should have the correct flux in it.

[Driver]

As someone that is MIL SPEC qualified in soldering  (past gov't job) I can attest you definitely need to practice first. I built electronics for over 10 years. Cables, circuit boards, wire wrap prototypes, SMD, Crystal oscillators, etc... Dry joints have been mentioned but don't forget that too much solder can be a issue to. It can cause the wires to be  more brittle and break rather than bend when needed. Too much heat and you boil the flux off prematurely and you'll get a dry joint as well. It's like a cake, too much or too little (Solder or Heat) can be bad for it.  Practice, Practice, Practice.

What will you be soldering? Two wires together (splice), connectors onto the end of the wire (crimp then solder), etc?

[bolus]

"hey babe, I'm MIL SPEC qualified in soldering... oooooh yeah..."   :laugh:  hows that work on the chicks?

[Driver]

Not AT all! Well wit, it did work once. I got the job, and blondie was all over me. Over the years I did work with a few women in that field that were decent lookers! And others that were uber Geeky EE's. Overall I think though the Electronics industry (manufacturing and design) lacks the lookers. They all go for the sales positions and I was well removed from that area. 

[benyeats]

[quote="Driver"]
uber Geeky EE's.
[/quote]

Now there is an oxymoron!  Mind you the lady EEs I know are all adamant that overall those that had MIL spec soldering qualifications are ugly sobs

Ben (BEng EE)

p.s. Mav, certainly practice on a load of loose wire first before deciding if you are up to soldering on your car or not.  Also remember the correct word is 'solder' not 'soder' the latter being an island where Thomas the Tank engine lives as far as I can tell and certainly nothing a competent engineer would use

[Mig]

[quote="silver"]
FWIW I have a weller butane iron....it's crap...it was cheap there may be better models out there but I've purchased 2 butane irons so far and they both sucked....I think wired is the way to go, that's my .02
[/quote] You should give the weller pyropen a try they give a few hours soldering and are adjustable to a good heat, They are quite expensive around £45 but are very reliable, they have a piezo ignitor and work first go, loads of spares available too. We have about 8 in the company being used every day with no probs apart from the odd nob burning a hole in his fleece whilst tring to solder something in the cab of his van.

Mig.

[dingo]

Sodor

from http://www.sodor-island.net/thomasthetankengineman.html

"Wilbert Awdry was approaching 82 when I first met him. I had gone along because my mother, who lived not far away in Wiltshire,
had been asked to write a profile for a regular column in The Oldie magazine that was titled 'Still With Us' The Reverend was an ideal topic for this page. I wanted to meet the author of my childhood.

His modest home was better known by its name, "Sodor".
Inside, the hallway behind the front door was hung with pictures of Wilbert as a handsome young man, in one of which he was part of a pre-war Oxford rowing team."

[benyeats]

[quote="dingo"]
Sodor

from http://www.sodor-island.net/thomasthetankengineman.html

"Wilbert Awdry was approaching 82 when I first met him. I had gone along because my mother, who lived not far away in Wiltshire,
had been asked to write a profile for a regular column in The Oldie magazine that was titled 'Still With Us' The Reverend was an ideal topic for this page. I wanted to meet the author of my childhood.

His modest home was better known by its name, "Sodor".
Inside, the hallway behind the front door was hung with pictures of Wilbert as a handsome young man, in one of which he was part of a pre-war Oxford rowing team."
[/quote]

I met him when I was very young ( <5 years probably) I think he has a Cambridgeshire connection as well, specifically the village of Elsworth near here wher I think he may have been reverend.

[Alec]

Sodor

from http://www.sodor-island.net/thomasthetankengineman.html

"Wilbert Awdry was approaching 82 when I first met him. I had gone along because my mother, who lived not far away in Wiltshire,
had been asked to write a profile for a regular column in The Oldie magazine that was titled 'Still With Us' The Reverend was an ideal topic for this page. I wanted to meet the author of my childhood.

His modest home was better known by its name, "Sodor".
Inside, the hallway behind the front door was hung with pictures of Wilbert as a handsome young man, in one of which he was part of a pre-war Oxford rowing team."

I met him when I was very young ( <5 years probably) I think he has a Cambridgeshire connection as well, specifically the village of Elsworth near here wher I think he may have been reverend.

You have a good memory Ben, to be able to remember meeting someone from when you were so young (although you only have to think back half as far as I do  ).

No wonder you can recall all the strange facts that earns you the 'Anorak Award' every year.

I did a quick search and you were spot on about him having a Cambridgeshire connection. (first point toward next year's award )

He subsequently moved to Cambridgeshire, serving as Rector of Elsworth with Knapwell, 1946-53, and Vicar of Emneth, 1953-65. He retired from full-time ministry in 1965, and moved to Stroud, Gloucestershire.