Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
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Mr.Woolery
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
At idle, I usually see pressures anywhere from 45-60psi, depending on how warm the engine is.
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silver
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
I think this is an extremely important subject for 2 reasons.........the safety of the engine......and damn it we spent a lot of money on this it should work..and it's so easy to recalibrate it wso that it does. So I decided to make a video.......it's very hard to understand what we're all talking about so I hope people read this and it paints a better picture of what we're trying to achieve
I made a video of how the guage should work, the video is broken up into a few sections where I start and stop the video, sorry it may not be the easiest to tell when the different stages are but I didn't have a helper to do the switch for me so I had to keep running back and forth.
Here are the clips.
1: the first part of the video is where the guage is when the car and ignition are off 60psi
2: the ignition switch flipped to up but the car is not started, the PSI drops to about 20 as the oil is pushed into the engine to pre-lube the motor. (sorry you can't see the needle due to the frame being in the way.
3: the engine running where the psi goes back up to about 68psi then settles to 60psi at idle
4: when you shut the ignition off the psi stays exactly at 60psi
Parts 1 and 4 are the beginning and the end and they should be the same.
I made a video of how the guage should work, the video is broken up into a few sections where I start and stop the video, sorry it may not be the easiest to tell when the different stages are but I didn't have a helper to do the switch for me so I had to keep running back and forth.
Here are the clips.
1: the first part of the video is where the guage is when the car and ignition are off 60psi
2: the ignition switch flipped to up but the car is not started, the PSI drops to about 20 as the oil is pushed into the engine to pre-lube the motor. (sorry you can't see the needle due to the frame being in the way.
3: the engine running where the psi goes back up to about 68psi then settles to 60psi at idle
4: when you shut the ignition off the psi stays exactly at 60psi
Parts 1 and 4 are the beginning and the end and they should be the same.
Last edited by silver on Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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silver
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
a quick follow up after 3 days of sitting in my garage the psi guage on the accumulator is exactly where I left it, therefore, I'd say proving no leak..........meaning even though it wasn't holding air pressure, it was due to calibration NOT a failure in the system.
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maverick1
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
I got my Atom back on the road, except I don't have the speedo working as of yet.
I am having a heck of a time with my masterlube. I replaced the melted gauge and new oil line.
When the system is fully charged with air and oil and is around 60psi with the engine off and you switch on the ignition which activates the masterlube, how much does the pressure on the gauge drop?
Secondly, if you were not to start the car but turn off the ignition wait a minute and then turn the ignition back on without starting the engine, will the pressure drop more in the masterlube during this second cycle or is it a one time thing???
cheers
I am having a heck of a time with my masterlube. I replaced the melted gauge and new oil line.
When the system is fully charged with air and oil and is around 60psi with the engine off and you switch on the ignition which activates the masterlube, how much does the pressure on the gauge drop?
Secondly, if you were not to start the car but turn off the ignition wait a minute and then turn the ignition back on without starting the engine, will the pressure drop more in the masterlube during this second cycle or is it a one time thing???
cheers
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silver
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
When you switch the ignition back on let's say after the car is parked......but NOT starting the car the pressure in the bottle goes way down...like to 20psi, because the oil is now prelubed in the motor.
When you start the engine, the psi in the bottle goes back up to probably 80 ish almost immediately then settles in at around 60 psi, which means it's half full of air at the right PSI......
When you stop the motor again by turning the ignition switch off it closes the valve on the bottle keeping the PSI at 60.
Then to answer your last question, if you turn the ignition back on without starting the motor, it prelubes the motor again hence dropping the pressure in the bottle.
It gets less confusing when you realize that low pressure in the bottle isn't a bad thing as long as it returns to 60psi while the engine is on.....low pressure in the bottle is a bad thing if your motor is running.
Mav your system is operating normally as far as I can tell...congrats on putting it back together correctly
When you start the engine, the psi in the bottle goes back up to probably 80 ish almost immediately then settles in at around 60 psi, which means it's half full of air at the right PSI......
When you stop the motor again by turning the ignition switch off it closes the valve on the bottle keeping the PSI at 60.
Then to answer your last question, if you turn the ignition back on without starting the motor, it prelubes the motor again hence dropping the pressure in the bottle.
It gets less confusing when you realize that low pressure in the bottle isn't a bad thing as long as it returns to 60psi while the engine is on.....low pressure in the bottle is a bad thing if your motor is running.
Mav your system is operating normally as far as I can tell...congrats on putting it back together correctly
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maverick1
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
[quote="Spanky"]
[quote="maverick1"]
When the system is fully charged with air and oil and is around 60psi with the engine off and you switch on the ignition which activates the masterlube, how much does the pressure on the gauge drop?
[/quote]
If at the start you calibrated it with approx. 30 psi of air only in the accumulator, then your full charge 60 psi of air & oil will be a correct 50/50 ratio. So now, when you switch on the ignition without starting the engine, the accumulator electric valve will open allowing the air pressure to push the oil down & out of the accumulator tank and into the engine's oil galleys. The oil will drain out until the floating steel ball (it must be hollow) inside the accumulator tank is not able to float any longer because there is not enogh oil to keep it floating. This ball becomes pushed by the 30 psi of air against a valve seat at the bottom of the tank and in the throat just above the electical valve. This is why the tank needs to be mounted near vertical. Your gage reading should be close to your original air only reading of approx. 30 psi.
[quote="maverick1"]
Secondly, if you were not to start the car but turn off the ignition wait a minute and then turn the ignition back on without starting the engine, will the pressure drop more in the masterlube during this second cycle or is it a one time thing???
[/quote]
If you gave it enough time in the first cycle to completely drain out so that you saw the gage needle stop dropping before shutting the ignition off, then when you turn the igintion on again (without starting it) it will not drop anymore. If you did not drain it down until the gage needle stops moving down the first time, it will move on the second cycle until it does. Mine takes approx. 30 to 45 seconds to come to a complete stop.
Here are some things I have noticed with my system,
When I am done with driving it and I put the car away in the garage, I note that the gage pressure will read close to 60 psi (after revving it to about 2500 rpms for 5 seconds before shutting it off). But by the next moring after the hot oil and the hot air (which got heated up by being in the accumulator with hot oil) cools down to room temperature, the gage reading is about 53 to 55 psi. This makes complete sense. Hot air expands creating higher readings. My point is: don't be alarmed and think that you have a leak.....unless the pressure continues to drop over a few days of being cold.
I have found that I have to calibrate more than I originally thought. I asked Masterlube about this and Kerry said that the better the quality of the oil you use, the more the amount of air that the oil will absorb. So after a period of time, Kerry said the amount of air in the accumulator will drop as it is carried off by the oil. This happens in very small amounts, but there is a very small amount of air to begin with in the accumlator. This is the primary reason why we need to calibrate the system.
Doing my calibrations, I have seen my system drop to 15 psi (air only) from what was 30 psi in just 3 weeks. So I check it often. But it is so easy, I do it when I do my other oil, brake & coolant levels checks.
The last thing you want to do is ignore it, allowing all the air to eventually be consumed. This will leave you accumulater at 100% oil. Since oil is not compressable like air, you risk over pressurizing the accumulator.
[/quote]
Silver and Spanky....thanks for clarifying everything for me, especially the part about the air pressure gradually going down and it dropping below the 60psi mark due to the hot air issue. Makes sense to me. I would turn off the ignition and the gauge would read 60-62psi and the next day it might be down to 53-55 and I thought I had a leak. Good to know the reason.
If you end up with more oil in the system what would be the best way to lower the level....add air above the 30lb level?
cheers
[quote="maverick1"]
When the system is fully charged with air and oil and is around 60psi with the engine off and you switch on the ignition which activates the masterlube, how much does the pressure on the gauge drop?
[/quote]
If at the start you calibrated it with approx. 30 psi of air only in the accumulator, then your full charge 60 psi of air & oil will be a correct 50/50 ratio. So now, when you switch on the ignition without starting the engine, the accumulator electric valve will open allowing the air pressure to push the oil down & out of the accumulator tank and into the engine's oil galleys. The oil will drain out until the floating steel ball (it must be hollow) inside the accumulator tank is not able to float any longer because there is not enogh oil to keep it floating. This ball becomes pushed by the 30 psi of air against a valve seat at the bottom of the tank and in the throat just above the electical valve. This is why the tank needs to be mounted near vertical. Your gage reading should be close to your original air only reading of approx. 30 psi.
[quote="maverick1"]
Secondly, if you were not to start the car but turn off the ignition wait a minute and then turn the ignition back on without starting the engine, will the pressure drop more in the masterlube during this second cycle or is it a one time thing???
[/quote]
If you gave it enough time in the first cycle to completely drain out so that you saw the gage needle stop dropping before shutting the ignition off, then when you turn the igintion on again (without starting it) it will not drop anymore. If you did not drain it down until the gage needle stops moving down the first time, it will move on the second cycle until it does. Mine takes approx. 30 to 45 seconds to come to a complete stop.
Here are some things I have noticed with my system,
When I am done with driving it and I put the car away in the garage, I note that the gage pressure will read close to 60 psi (after revving it to about 2500 rpms for 5 seconds before shutting it off). But by the next moring after the hot oil and the hot air (which got heated up by being in the accumulator with hot oil) cools down to room temperature, the gage reading is about 53 to 55 psi. This makes complete sense. Hot air expands creating higher readings. My point is: don't be alarmed and think that you have a leak.....unless the pressure continues to drop over a few days of being cold.
I have found that I have to calibrate more than I originally thought. I asked Masterlube about this and Kerry said that the better the quality of the oil you use, the more the amount of air that the oil will absorb. So after a period of time, Kerry said the amount of air in the accumulator will drop as it is carried off by the oil. This happens in very small amounts, but there is a very small amount of air to begin with in the accumlator. This is the primary reason why we need to calibrate the system.
Doing my calibrations, I have seen my system drop to 15 psi (air only) from what was 30 psi in just 3 weeks. So I check it often. But it is so easy, I do it when I do my other oil, brake & coolant levels checks.
The last thing you want to do is ignore it, allowing all the air to eventually be consumed. This will leave you accumulater at 100% oil. Since oil is not compressable like air, you risk over pressurizing the accumulator.
[/quote]
Silver and Spanky....thanks for clarifying everything for me, especially the part about the air pressure gradually going down and it dropping below the 60psi mark due to the hot air issue. Makes sense to me. I would turn off the ignition and the gauge would read 60-62psi and the next day it might be down to 53-55 and I thought I had a leak. Good to know the reason.
If you end up with more oil in the system what would be the best way to lower the level....add air above the 30lb level?
cheers
Last edited by maverick1 on Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Radowick
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
[quote="maverick1"]
If you end up with more oil in the system what would be the best way to lower the level....add air above the 30lb level?
[/quote]
To start with, the only way to find out if "more oil in the system" is to re-calibrate it. So during the re-calibration you would being doing both the check and adjustment in the same series of steps;
1. When engine & oil are cold,
Turn the ignition on without starting engine
Leave ignition on and the engine off thru the following steps
2. Wait for the gage needle to stop dropping.
3. Add air thru top valve to raise the pressure to 30 psi
I have the whole prosess down to just 1 basic mindset question ,
Do I have 30 psi of air in the tank (when empty of all oil)?
Air is the only component I can directly control by adding more of.
The amount of oil is a result of controlling the air.
If you end up with more oil in the system what would be the best way to lower the level....add air above the 30lb level?
[/quote]
To start with, the only way to find out if "more oil in the system" is to re-calibrate it. So during the re-calibration you would being doing both the check and adjustment in the same series of steps;
1. When engine & oil are cold,
Turn the ignition on without starting engine
Leave ignition on and the engine off thru the following steps
2. Wait for the gage needle to stop dropping.
3. Add air thru top valve to raise the pressure to 30 psi
I have the whole prosess down to just 1 basic mindset question ,
Do I have 30 psi of air in the tank (when empty of all oil)?
Air is the only component I can directly control by adding more of.
The amount of oil is a result of controlling the air.
Last edited by Radowick on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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maverick1
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
I definitely have a problem. When I turned on the ignition the gauge dropped as usual but after my drive I checked the gauge and it read around 50psi. I then turned on the ignition again and the needle did not drop. Once the car was running I revved up the engine and the needle went up but came back down. The needle should not drop but hold the pressure.
I probably screwed up something in the Masterlube with all that heat from the exhaust leak.
If I take off the unit to ship it back for repair, what would I put on the engine where the oil line attaches? Just screw on a bolt?
cheers
I probably screwed up something in the Masterlube with all that heat from the exhaust leak.
If I take off the unit to ship it back for repair, what would I put on the engine where the oil line attaches? Just screw on a bolt?
cheers
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silver
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
It sounds like you jumping to conclusions a little......the Psi should go up and come back down a little when you start the motor......but the psi shouldn't drop a lot....what's the resting psi while your motor is running, it should be in the range of 60psi.....it's ok if it goes past 60psi upon inital startup and drops back down..
or are you saying that the psi in your bottle goes to 0 while your car is running...........if so IT'S NOT DEFECTIVE it just needs to be adjusted.
attach a bike pump to the top of the bottle and pump it up...it's simple to correct this system, it's a very simple system and there really haven't been any failures BUT there was a FAILURE in letting us owners know that it really does have to be maintained.
or are you saying that the psi in your bottle goes to 0 while your car is running...........if so IT'S NOT DEFECTIVE it just needs to be adjusted.
attach a bike pump to the top of the bottle and pump it up...it's simple to correct this system, it's a very simple system and there really haven't been any failures BUT there was a FAILURE in letting us owners know that it really does have to be maintained.
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Radowick
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
I want to put a dedicated on/off switch for the Masterlube system. But I need to find the wire that ties in the Masterlube system to the igniton power on/off toggle switch. Do I really need to open up the big wire harness just behind the dash gages to find it? Is there an easier way? I can't find any wire there with a identifier matching the one leading into the accumulator's valve. And I don't want to cut open the harness if I don't have to.
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
[quote="Spanky"]
I want to put a dedicated on/off switch for the Masterlube system. But I need to find the wire that ties in the Masterlube system to the igniton power on/off toggle switch. Do I really need to open up the big wire harness just behind the dash gages to find it? Is there an easier way? I can't find any wire there with a identifier matching the one leading into the accumulator's valve. And I don't want to cut open the harness if I don't have to.
[/quote]
At least on my car and Spaz's car, Brammo used the CAN bus wires to power the Masterlube solenoid. Thanks to the handy-dandy GM Service Info DVD (which I have with me on the road to AtomFest), I can tell you that these should be a tan/black wire and a tan wire, and be designated 2500 and 2501. They are probably twisted together. On my Atom, these are a tan wire and a tan wire with a white stripe.
There are some pictures here, though the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
If a Brammo Atom has a Masterlube, these wires should be connected to the ignition switch somewhere behind the dash. If the Atom doesn't have a Masterlube, the other end of those wires probably still goes to the ECU, and don't hook them up to anything or you can destroy your ECU.
If you contact the Masterlube folks, they should be able to sell you their special switch, which has on / off / momentary on functions.
I want to put a dedicated on/off switch for the Masterlube system. But I need to find the wire that ties in the Masterlube system to the igniton power on/off toggle switch. Do I really need to open up the big wire harness just behind the dash gages to find it? Is there an easier way? I can't find any wire there with a identifier matching the one leading into the accumulator's valve. And I don't want to cut open the harness if I don't have to.
[/quote]
At least on my car and Spaz's car, Brammo used the CAN bus wires to power the Masterlube solenoid. Thanks to the handy-dandy GM Service Info DVD (which I have with me on the road to AtomFest), I can tell you that these should be a tan/black wire and a tan wire, and be designated 2500 and 2501. They are probably twisted together. On my Atom, these are a tan wire and a tan wire with a white stripe.
There are some pictures here, though the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
If a Brammo Atom has a Masterlube, these wires should be connected to the ignition switch somewhere behind the dash. If the Atom doesn't have a Masterlube, the other end of those wires probably still goes to the ECU, and don't hook them up to anything or you can destroy your ECU.
If you contact the Masterlube folks, they should be able to sell you their special switch, which has on / off / momentary on functions.
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Radowick
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
Mine is one of the later Atoms from Brammo, built with the Masterlube system as original order.
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
should be a tan/black wire and a tan wire, and be designated 2500 and 2501. They are probably twisted together.
[/quote]
Thanks.
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
[/quote]
I thought he decided to keep the car and not move to Hawaii?
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
If you contact the Masterlube folks, they should be able to sell you their special switch, which has on / off / momentary on functions.
[/quote]
Already have that switch. Masterlube sent it to me months ago.
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
should be a tan/black wire and a tan wire, and be designated 2500 and 2501. They are probably twisted together.
[/quote]
Thanks.
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
[/quote]
I thought he decided to keep the car and not move to Hawaii?
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
If you contact the Masterlube folks, they should be able to sell you their special switch, which has on / off / momentary on functions.
[/quote]
Already have that switch. Masterlube sent it to me months ago.
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
[quote="Spanky"]
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
[/quote]
I thought he decided to keep the car and not move to Hawaii?
[/quote]
I think so, but he has definitely departed from these forums.
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
the thread has been ravaged by bolus' departure (along with his pictures).
[/quote]
I thought he decided to keep the car and not move to Hawaii?
[/quote]
I think so, but he has definitely departed from these forums.
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Driver
Re: Masterlube system should be on it's own switch for maximum engine benifits.
I'm blaming his motion sickness medication. It's gotta be psychologically damaging to have an Atom in the garage and not be able to enjoy the drive.
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