using a different aftercooler

[maverick1]

[quote="bolus"]
FYI, I ordered calscot's intercooler from TTS Performance.  This is the one that is custom made to sit in the hoop.  This is air to air so wont work with the stock ecotec.  But I think it will be great for a turbo application  I was going to hold off but with the dropping dollar I did not want to wait and end up paying triple. 

To order email Richard at richard@tts-performance.co.uk for details £400

[/quote]
I think this is a very good move and I believe it will make a big difference with the overheating problem. I guess only time will tell. Good luck with the install. You are an Ecotec Atom pioneer.
What blows me away is that the Honda powered supercharged Atom does not come with any kind of aftercooler and still has no overheating issues. How can this be, or am I missing something? Does it come with a different type of supercharger than the Ecotec's?
cheers

[bolus]

Mav, this would be an option for my turbo build so it is not for cooling the current supercharger install. 

[MadMaxedAtom]

http://www.rotrex.com/  Read alll about the Rotrex supercharger and you will understand why it is the design of the unit that makes its incredible performance a reality.

In simple terms,it is a belt driven ultra efficient "turbocharger" or "hybrid"  design

Much more advanced than any roots stye or centrifugal blower designs.Think of it in a jet turbine vs. propeller scenario

You could put one on an Ecotec...they just don't have a ready made "kit"  like they do for the Honda motor.On the other side of this photo would be a pulley, that is belt driven,just like the Eaton (roots style) supercharger currently on the LSJ Ecotec        NO lag,and HUGE effiency...volume without excessive heat.   However,there is still parasitic losses over a true turbo setup.
But,who cares about a few measley HP when it produces So much anyway?

Unless you are just plain HP mad.....like a lot of dyno addicts. Oh,lets seee how high the needle goes....

[DarthChicken]

[quote="maverick1"]
I think this is a very good move and I believe it will make a big difference with the overheating problem. I guess only time will tell. Good luck with the install. You are an Ecotec Atom pioneer.
What blows me away is that the Honda powered supercharged Atom does not come with any kind of aftercooler and still has no overheating issues. How can this be, or am I missing something? Does it come with a different type of supercharger than the Ecotec's?
cheers
[/quote]

Not a different supercharger.  Higher compression to start off with, so they don't have to run even half the boost we do to get to 300hp. 

[MadMaxedAtom]

The Hondas use the Rotrex blower.Much better than the Eaton.Ask Calscot

[DarthChicken]

err no... Calscot did that on his own.

[Kempo]

I'm not sure but I think the Honda uses the Jackson racing S/C.

[MadMaxedAtom]

Brammo may add the JRSC on the Honda from the "factory"(I don't really know),but Calscot used the Rotrex.I was aware of that fact.


The Rotrex is A MUCH better S/C unit,albeit more expensive.

[NathanE]

[quote="MadMaxedAtom"]
http://www.rotrex.com/  Read alll about the Rotrex supercharger and you will understand why it is the design of the unit that makes its incredible performance a reality.

In simple terms,it is a belt driven ultra efficient "turbocharger" or "hybrid"  design

Much more advanced than any roots stye or centrifugal blower designs.Think of it in a jet turbine vs. propeller scenario

[/quote]

Er hate to disagree, but as far as I can see from the drawings and particularly the cutaway photo on the "OEM supercharger" page actually it is a centrifugal blower. 

I agree that it is different from a positive displacement charger (like a Roots), but the advanced aspect seems to be more about the gearbox than the impeller to me. 

The comparison to a "jet turbine" is misleading as a jet turbine is an exhaust stage device which is coupled to a compressor in a jet or fan engine.  There is no turbine in this set up, purely a belt driven, geared centrifugal flow compressor. 

[MadMaxedAtom]

 

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="MadMaxedAtom"]
The Rotrex is A MUCH better S/C unit,albeit more expensive.
[/quote]

He's using the 'b' word again...

[NathanE]

[quote="MadMaxedAtom"]
 
[/quote]

Not trying to be a smart arse, just trying to bring a little reality to the "it's easy to identify a much better solution than the factory" kind of theme that seems to float around a bit.

Surely it is worthwhile being objective and looking factually at things, rather then relying on inaccurate statements and emotion?

My engine is normally aspirated so tbh I don't know what the Ariel s/c set up is to compare, and the Rotrex looks very interesting, but it's cleverness seems to arise from the design of its gearbox (unique in this application) and the fact that it is a dynamic charger (not unique in this application), plus the fact that it has a self contained lubrication system (no idea if it's unique or not) that requires the use of an in house lubricant (let me guess, it's more expensive than Castrol GTX right?). 

Ultimately if I wanted to tweak the engine for more power output I would take into account performance enhancement, cost, and reliability when reaching a decision.  If that favours the Rotrex then that's great, I'm not knocking it. 

[CalScot]

I would say it depends what power you want. My take on this:
(Assumptions are you have a Honda)
You want up to 300HP? Normally aspirated NA motor. maybe some engine upgrades closer to the 300 range. Mostly tuning. No charger needed.
300 to 350? Very easy and cost effective to upgrade the engine bits and still go NA or go Jackson. It's a known entity and works great.
350 to 400? Still viable to go NA, but major engine bits, bigger CC needed for relaibility. Jackson still might be good (dont know) Rotrex starts to look real good
400+? Rotrex stands out. Huge boost, S/C advantages over Turbo.

Of course, the higher the HP range, the bigger the budget needed.

[NathanE]

I'm still not sure how the Rotrex unit is better than say a Powerdyne or Vortech system, or whether either of them nowadays overcome the issue of having low boost at low engine rpms. 

This traditional issue with centrifugal chargers (and hence my comment about the fact that the Rotrex is just a centrifugal unit with a different gearbox Max) is that because the impeller speed is proportional to the engine rpm throughout its rev range it suffers from proportionally lower incremental power delivery right up to redline. 

These type of units are (used to be?) fine if you are always using the engine high up in the rev range, but if you want low rev torque improvements they are not as good as a Roots type unit. 

A turbocharger suffers at very low rpm, but as far as I understand uses a wastegate system to enable maximum impeller speed to be reached mid way through the rev range and not exceeded therafter. 

[arielatom600]

[quote="CalScot"]
I would say it depends what power you want. My take on this:
(Assumptions are you have a Honda)
You want up to 300HP? Normally aspirated NA motor. maybe some engine upgrades closer to the 300 range. Mostly tuning. No charger needed.
300 to 350? Very easy and cost effective to upgrade the engine bits and still go NA or go Jackson. It's a known entity and works great.
350 to 400? Still viable to go NA, but major engine bits, bigger CC needed for relaibility. Jackson still might be good (dont know) Rotrex starts to look real good
400+? Rotrex stands out. Huge boost, S/C advantages over Turbo.

Of course, the higher the HP range, the bigger the budget needed.



[/quote]


I agree with Calscot,
another thing is to go for something that have been tested and tried by others first. Why did I go for the Rotrex, because of hearing of people like calscot and other honda guys. Rotrex are very good, other S/C systems are probably as well, but Rotrex is available for Honda, right now, do it!!