Thankyou both.
I'm also very interested to see the condition of the RF bearing from which the grease emerged and started my interest in this subject.
Wheel bearing replacement
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bolus
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
DAMMIT donk link to cool tools that I have no reason to buy..... grrrr must... resist....
I just bought a bead roller to put two beads in some charge tubing.... Probably never use it again but I just had to buy that bead roller. Now I want a 15 ton press...
Is there a tools anonymous I can join?
I just bought a bead roller to put two beads in some charge tubing.... Probably never use it again but I just had to buy that bead roller. Now I want a 15 ton press...
Is there a tools anonymous I can join?
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Terry Kennedy
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1965Cobra427
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="unknown"]
Excellent job on the drawing Randy,however it is a tad inaccurate, in the omission of a dividing line on the inner race.The inner race is actually two separate races and they do not touch in the center.The torque on the axle nut is what loads those inner races against the roller bearings and then the outer race,or bearing housing.This is why the bearing fails when the axle nut torque is reduced,as the rollers no longer ride true in their races. Not trying to be a smarty pants,just like to get mechanics right,as it is an exact science.
Now that we know the spacers are crap,this explains the bearing failures.
[/quote]
Of course, therefore my disclaimer that it is not a real mechanical drawing of the assembly. I also left out many of the reliefs, radii and other details. (I did it on break at work) It mostly to helps folks see the stack up of axle, spacer, bearing, hub, etc.
In actual point of fact, though I've had five damaged hubs and three uprights, I have never had a bearing fail. I have reloaded them out of good practice, but none has had the least bit of galling, erosion, pitting, or noticeable run out.
On the issue of lubing the bearings, it is important not to over pack them. This gives the bearings a sensation of 'running in quicksand' and will often result in overheating and loss of all the grease, which of course results in catastrophic bearing failure. I use wheel bearing grease advertized for 'disc brake' applications since these tend to introduce more heat into the bearing and the grease is compounded to handle the heat. A light 'not packed' fill of the bearing should be plenty.
Excellent job on the drawing Randy,however it is a tad inaccurate, in the omission of a dividing line on the inner race.The inner race is actually two separate races and they do not touch in the center.The torque on the axle nut is what loads those inner races against the roller bearings and then the outer race,or bearing housing.This is why the bearing fails when the axle nut torque is reduced,as the rollers no longer ride true in their races. Not trying to be a smarty pants,just like to get mechanics right,as it is an exact science.
Now that we know the spacers are crap,this explains the bearing failures.[/quote]
Of course, therefore my disclaimer that it is not a real mechanical drawing of the assembly. I also left out many of the reliefs, radii and other details. (I did it on break at work) It mostly to helps folks see the stack up of axle, spacer, bearing, hub, etc.
In actual point of fact, though I've had five damaged hubs and three uprights, I have never had a bearing fail. I have reloaded them out of good practice, but none has had the least bit of galling, erosion, pitting, or noticeable run out.
On the issue of lubing the bearings, it is important not to over pack them. This gives the bearings a sensation of 'running in quicksand' and will often result in overheating and loss of all the grease, which of course results in catastrophic bearing failure. I use wheel bearing grease advertized for 'disc brake' applications since these tend to introduce more heat into the bearing and the grease is compounded to handle the heat. A light 'not packed' fill of the bearing should be plenty.
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Heywood-Yablowme
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
If the bearing is not failing,is it the hub? Is it the upright itself distorting? I was under the assumption the bearings were failing,causing the collateral damage to the hub and upright.. Hmm...
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dingo
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
My Local Tool Town had a 20 ton floor standing press, but actually told me it would be overkill for this job.
That for about half the price from Harbor Freight, I should get a 12 ton press (Tool Time did not have any 12 ton editions in stock)
That was decent of them (and it's why I keep going back)
I did however purchase for $33 a set of Lisle brand Bearing Race and Seal Driver - Master Set.
How about that? Even before TK had made his post. Thanks just the same.
I could (I was thinking) just take the hub off, remove the seals and repack the bearing.
But with 9,000 miles on the car, I suppose I'd be more sensible to simply having got that far, discard the old bearing and press in the new.
Thanks everyone for your patience with me on this and the excellent advice.
That for about half the price from Harbor Freight, I should get a 12 ton press (Tool Time did not have any 12 ton editions in stock)
That was decent of them (and it's why I keep going back)
I did however purchase for $33 a set of Lisle brand Bearing Race and Seal Driver - Master Set.
How about that? Even before TK had made his post. Thanks just the same.
I could (I was thinking) just take the hub off, remove the seals and repack the bearing.
But with 9,000 miles on the car, I suppose I'd be more sensible to simply having got that far, discard the old bearing and press in the new.
Thanks everyone for your patience with me on this and the excellent advice.
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1965Cobra427
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="unknown"]
If the bearing is not failing,is it the hub? Is it the upright itself distorting? I was under the assumption the bearings were failing,causing the collateral damage to the hub and upright.. Hmm...
[/quote]
Let's see, if a picture is worth 1,000 words . . .
Failure mode 1 - Hub broken in the bearing journal - related to crushed spacers and loosening axle nuts. Resolved by hardened spacers.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3274.jpg[/img]
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3275.jpg[/img]
Failure mode 2 - flange separates from hub center - related to flange being too thin at intersection of hub center. Resolved with new-gen hubs - increased web thickenss.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3270.jpg[/img]
Upright failure - damaged by hub banging on it after it has broken - Resolved by not breaking hubs.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3280.jpg[/img]
Not shown - upright twisted (not visible in photos) by three known circumstances to date - 1) car going airborne over a rise and coming down on one rear tire while operating with fully heated non-dot slicks. 2) car coming back on track after a high speed 'off' into the grass -catching the edge of the pavement. 3). Car leaves wet track on slicks - rear wheel hits tire wall at an odd angle and (slightly) twists upright. I re-adjusted the rear toe and ran this upright for two months this way. Twist was about 1-1/2 degrees.
In all cases, the bearings were fine.
If the bearing is not failing,is it the hub? Is it the upright itself distorting? I was under the assumption the bearings were failing,causing the collateral damage to the hub and upright.. Hmm...
[/quote]
Let's see, if a picture is worth 1,000 words . . .
Failure mode 1 - Hub broken in the bearing journal - related to crushed spacers and loosening axle nuts. Resolved by hardened spacers.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3274.jpg[/img]
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3275.jpg[/img]
Failure mode 2 - flange separates from hub center - related to flange being too thin at intersection of hub center. Resolved with new-gen hubs - increased web thickenss.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3270.jpg[/img]
Upright failure - damaged by hub banging on it after it has broken - Resolved by not breaking hubs.
[img width=800 height=532]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/ ... GP3280.jpg[/img]
Not shown - upright twisted (not visible in photos) by three known circumstances to date - 1) car going airborne over a rise and coming down on one rear tire while operating with fully heated non-dot slicks. 2) car coming back on track after a high speed 'off' into the grass -catching the edge of the pavement. 3). Car leaves wet track on slicks - rear wheel hits tire wall at an odd angle and (slightly) twists upright. I re-adjusted the rear toe and ran this upright for two months this way. Twist was about 1-1/2 degrees.
In all cases, the bearings were fine.
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Heywood-Yablowme
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
Are the new gen hubs available from TMI as just a hub,or do you have to buy a complete upright? Do you have a ballpark price?
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dingo
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
I'd like to point out that at least for front, but also most likely for rear also, the TMI hubs are competely incompatible with Brammo wishbones.
Front lower wb has a ball joint and attaches quite differently than the Ariel MoCo version that has a rod end there.
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.
Front lower wb has a ball joint and attaches quite differently than the Ariel MoCo version that has a rod end there.
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.
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1965Cobra427
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="unknown"]
Are the new gen hubs available from TMI as just a hub,or do you have to buy a complete upright? Do you have a ballpark price?
[/quote]
Hubs are available seperately. I purchased a pair, but honestly don't remember the exact price. Less than $400 each as I recall.
Are the new gen hubs available from TMI as just a hub,or do you have to buy a complete upright? Do you have a ballpark price?
[/quote]
Hubs are available seperately. I purchased a pair, but honestly don't remember the exact price. Less than $400 each as I recall.
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dp35
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="dingo"]
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is true or not. I've asked TMI the question and got no answer. I inquired about getting a new rear hub for my UK Atom, and TMI had to order it from Ariel UK ($280). I was surprised by this because I thought the TMI and UK Atom 3's were the same as mine in this area.
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is true or not. I've asked TMI the question and got no answer. I inquired about getting a new rear hub for my UK Atom, and TMI had to order it from Ariel UK ($280). I was surprised by this because I thought the TMI and UK Atom 3's were the same as mine in this area.
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1965Cobra427
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="dingo"]
I'd like to point out that at least for front, but also most likely for rear also, the TMI hubs are competely incompatible with Brammo wishbones.
Front lower wb has a ball joint and attaches quite differently than the Ariel MoCo version that has a rod end there.
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.
[/quote]
Actually it's the Atom 3 uprights that are incompatible with the US Atom 2 wishbones. TMI has the tooling, designs, etc. to manufacture and supply Brammo spec parts to those owners. They may be slow to produce since Atom 3 is job 1, but they will support us with parts. (See my post above on hubs)
I'd like to point out that at least for front, but also most likely for rear also, the TMI hubs are competely incompatible with Brammo wishbones.
Front lower wb has a ball joint and attaches quite differently than the Ariel MoCo version that has a rod end there.
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.
[/quote]
Actually it's the Atom 3 uprights that are incompatible with the US Atom 2 wishbones. TMI has the tooling, designs, etc. to manufacture and supply Brammo spec parts to those owners. They may be slow to produce since Atom 3 is job 1, but they will support us with parts. (See my post above on hubs)
Last edited by 1965Cobra427 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CalScot
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="dp35"]
[quote="dingo"]
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is true or not. I've asked TMI the question and got no answer. I inquired about getting a new rear hub for my UK Atom, and TMI had to order it from Ariel UK ($280). I was surprised by this because I thought the TMI and UK Atom 3's were the same as mine in this area.
[/quote]
I am sure they are the same but TMI are still getting lots of smaller supplies/parts shipped over from the UK AFAIK. Thats not a bad price actually!
[quote="dingo"]
If any of your Atoms are UK originals, then TMI's new hubs will fit.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is true or not. I've asked TMI the question and got no answer. I inquired about getting a new rear hub for my UK Atom, and TMI had to order it from Ariel UK ($280). I was surprised by this because I thought the TMI and UK Atom 3's were the same as mine in this area.
[/quote]
I am sure they are the same but TMI are still getting lots of smaller supplies/parts shipped over from the UK AFAIK. Thats not a bad price actually!
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DarthChicken
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
ok, resurecting this one from the dead.
Sealed, front wheel bearing part numbers.. did this ever get figured out? I read the entire thread, plus some linked threads, and either there are a lot of different part numbers available, or there is a lot of mis-information out there.
What is the correct part number?
Sealed, front wheel bearing part numbers.. did this ever get figured out? I read the entire thread, plus some linked threads, and either there are a lot of different part numbers available, or there is a lot of mis-information out there.
What is the correct part number?
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Wheel bearing replacement
[quote="DarthChicken"]
Sealed, front wheel bearing part numbers.. did this ever get figured out? I read the entire thread, plus some linked threads, and either there are a lot of different part numbers available, or there is a lot of mis-information out there.[/quote]
Both.
As I mentioned in another thread, I ordered 4 of one specific part number from NAPA and got 4 parts of 3 different brands, none of which was the brand I specified, all delivered in the same box.
My advice would be to contact Tom. He's tracked down a genuine US manufacturer of sealed bearings for his uprights, and perhaps that manufacturer also makes a version in the size for the regular bearings.
Sealed, front wheel bearing part numbers.. did this ever get figured out? I read the entire thread, plus some linked threads, and either there are a lot of different part numbers available, or there is a lot of mis-information out there.[/quote]
Both.
As I mentioned in another thread, I ordered 4 of one specific part number from NAPA and got 4 parts of 3 different brands, none of which was the brand I specified, all delivered in the same box.
My advice would be to contact Tom. He's tracked down a genuine US manufacturer of sealed bearings for his uprights, and perhaps that manufacturer also makes a version in the size for the regular bearings.
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