Recaro Seat Removal

[shinoo]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="Karl"]
I'd like to preface this post by apologizing for the lack of pictures.  I was just so glad to be making progress that I forgot to take them.

This is an informative post for anyone who needs to remove the Recaro seats for any reason.  I needed to get at the crotch belt anchor points below the seat, to adjust the strap length.  Little did I know what I was getting myself into.[/quote]

Two questions:

1) I assume it is necessary to remove the seats in order to remove the center console?

2) Would it be possible to remove the seats and the seat slider assembly by removing the 4 bolts that attach the slider assembly to the frame cross-members? Or is that simply too easy?
[/quote]

1. Yes
2. Yes, that is how I took my Sparco out. It is mounted to Recaro sliders so I assume the Recaro seat removal is the same?  I have a CF seat that I am going to fit that is pretty insane. 

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="Karl"]
8. Now you're probably wondering how, in the name of the good baby Jesus, you're going to access the last bolt.  This is where it gets really tricky.

9. Get some masking tape, packing tape, anything soft that you can adhere to the inside of your ratcheting wrench to turn it into a captive head.  The goal is to not drop this bolt, because there is potential that it won't drop into the tub, but into an even harder-to-access area.  Test it with one of your existing bolts to make sure that it's resistant to removal.

10. Move the seat-to-be-removed's rails to about the halfway point.  Stick your arm behind the seat and into the center console.  You should be able to feel the outline of a cutout that Brammo thoughtfully designed into the console for purposes of accessing this last bolt.  Get a good idea of its size and span.  It narrows towards the front of the car, and directly opposite the narrowing of the cutout, you should be able to feel the head of the last bolt.

11. Maneuver the sticky-head ratcheting wrench into the center console opening, and position it on the head of the last bolt.  If you are experiencing clearance issues, try moving the rails forward or backward to solve them.  Depending on your wrench and your setup, you might be rotating the wrench completely within or completely outside of the cutout.

12. Remove the last bolt, taking care not to drop it or its washer into the center console.  The seat is now loose.
[/quote]

I actually found this bolt to be the easiest - I removed the little storage bin from the center console and was able to reach in from the top and use the ratchet to remove the bolt. Once it was pretty loose, I just used my fingers to unthread it the rest of the way.

[Karl]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
I actually found this bolt to be the easiest - I removed the little storage bin from the center console and was able to reach in from the top and use the ratchet to remove the bolt. Once it was pretty loose, I just used my fingers to unthread it the rest of the way.
[/quote]

I was afraid of cracking the glue joint on the storage bin, but I also discovered this later on.

[silver]

FWIW as it relates to the fuel tank gasket thread, I am now removing my seats to drill out the holes in the frame so that I can install the riv-nuts.

Taking the center console out before the seats At least on my car was possible (I have #0060)

Also taking the drivers seat out took 10 minutes, and I wish I had not been scared by reading this thread originally otherwise I would have taken the seat out prior to doing all the work.

FWIW all I needed was this ratcheting wrench in a 12 mm size from harbor freight.  The entire set was $6 bux on sale and for once I already owned the correct tool.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=94495

I really don't care what people think of my quality of tools cuz it got the job done in 10 minutes therefore I'm grinning from ear to ear.

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="silver"]
Taking the center console out before the seats At least on my car was possible (I have #0060)

Also taking the drivers seat out took 10 minutes, and I wish I had not been scared by reading this thread originally otherwise I would have taken the seat out prior to doing all the work.[/quote]

I finally got around to re-installing the inner front seat bolts today.

I took the seats out last summer when I started to change my black fiberglass panels (including the center console) for carbon fiber ones. For various reasons, my Atom has been in various stages of disassembly until recently. Last week I reached the "everything that I took out is now replaced or back on" stage (except for the 2 seat bolts).

I had a huge amount of trouble with almost all of the carbon fiber panels - lots of things from these late-production panels didn't line up with my very early Atom - I had to cut chunks out of the nose to fit my cooling fan, had to relocate 2 of the 1/4-turn latches (for the airbox cover) on the rear deck, and so forth. The center console had similar issues - the rear mounting holes didn't line up - in fact, the holes in the tub aren't even within the area covered by the new console. Of course, I received these panels just as Brammo exited the Atom business, so I had to come up with my own solutions.

Anyway, back to the seats - the existing bolts were metric 8mm x 1.25, 20mm long. It was impossible to re-install these bolts - after a couple hours of trying I gave up and ordered some 16mm and 12mm long ones. I knew 12mm would fit, but I hoped to use the 16mm ones as I was concerned about having enough thread engagement with the 12mm ones.

I wound up working from the front, using forceps to position the 16mm bolt at the mounting hole in the bracket, with the head of the bolt angled toward the front of the car. With a second set of forceps working from the top, I grabbed the threaded portion of the bolt and released the front forceps. Then I used the front forceps to push the head of the bolt toward the rear of the car. At this point I had the bolt straight into the hole. [The problem with the original 20mm bolt is that it couldn't make this turn into the hole - I expect the new center console is a bit wider.]

I now used a straight pick from the top to push on the head of the bolt, pushing it toward the seat. This is where I dropped the bolt most of the time (the others were failing to make the turn to straighten out the bolt). While continuing to push on the head of the bolt, I wiggled the seat until I felt the bolt slip a little further into the hole. Now, using the forceps, varying the approach from the front and the top, I managed to turn the bolt enough to get a slight engagement of the threads. I then used a normal 13mm non-ratcheting open end wrench to screw the bolt further in. This involved a series of 1/12-turn moves, alternating the wrench angle each time.

After enough of those, I was able to get the ratcheting end of a ratcheting wrench on the bolt head (previously the head had been too close to the center console piece and the wrench wouldn't fit between them) and proceeded to tighten the bolt, one click at a time.

I never want to do this again. 

[silver]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="silver"]
Taking the center console out before the seats At least on my car was possible (I have #0060)

Also taking the drivers seat out took 10 minutes, and I wish I had not been scared by reading this thread originally otherwise I would have taken the seat out prior to doing all the work.[/quote]

I finally got around to re-installing the inner front seat bolts today.

I took the seats out last summer when I started to change my black fiberglass panels (including the center console) for carbon fiber ones. For various reasons, my Atom has been in various stages of disassembly until recently. Last week I reached the "everything that I took out is now replaced or back on" stage (except for the 2 seat bolts).

I had a huge amount of trouble with almost all of the carbon fiber panels - lots of things from these late-production panels didn't line up with my very early Atom - I had to cut chunks out of the nose to fit my cooling fan, had to relocate 2 of the 1/4-turn latches (for the airbox cover) on the rear deck, and so forth. The center console had similar issues - the rear mounting holes didn't line up - in fact, the holes in the tub aren't even within the area covered by the new console. Of course, I received these panels just as Brammo exited the Atom business, so I had to come up with my own solutions.

Anyway, back to the seats - the existing bolts were metric 8mm x 1.25, 20mm long. It was impossible to re-install these bolts - after a couple hours of trying I gave up and ordered some 16mm and 12mm long ones. I knew 12mm would fit, but I hoped to use the 16mm ones as I was concerned about having enough thread engagement with the 12mm ones.

I wound up working from the front, using forceps to position the 16mm bolt at the mounting hole in the bracket, with the head of the bolt angled toward the front of the car. With a second set of forceps working from the top, I grabbed the threaded portion of the bolt and released the front forceps. Then I used the front forceps to push the head of the bolt toward the rear of the car. At this point I had the bolt straight into the hole. [The problem with the original 20mm bolt is that it couldn't make this turn into the hole - I expect the new center console is a bit wider.]

I now used a straight pick from the top to push on the head of the bolt, pushing it toward the seat. This is where I dropped the bolt most of the time (the others were failing to make the turn to straighten out the bolt). While continuing to push on the head of the bolt, I wiggled the seat until I felt the bolt slip a little further into the hole. Now, using the forceps, varying the approach from the front and the top, I managed to turn the bolt enough to get a slight engagement of the threads. I then used a normal 13mm non-ratcheting open end wrench to screw the bolt further in. This involved a series of 1/12-turn moves, alternating the wrench angle each time.

After enough of those, I was able to get the ratcheting end of a ratcheting wrench on the bolt head (previously the head had been too close to the center console piece and the wrench wouldn't fit between them) and proceeded to tighten the bolt, one click at a time.

I never want to do this again. 
[/quote]

too bad you don't have tools from harbor freight...could have saved you a lot of effort

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="silver"]
too bad you don't have tools from harbor freight...could have saved you a lot of effort
[/quote]

Harbor Fright, eh? Let's see - I wouldn't purchase anything that might fail and cause personal injury or property damage. That leaves out a lot of what's in the store. A friend purchased one of their $19.95 "Laser guided" saber saws to cut out an opening for a sink in a countertop. The saw didn't hold the blade straight and the laser beam seemed to indicate everywhere BUT where the saw would cut. A new, larger, sink was purchased at Lowe's to fit in the oversized hole, along with a properly functional saber saw, as the pair were less expensive than replacing the countertop.

Take all of those "Made in China" horror stories and use a careful eye to see how they could affect something at Harbor Freight.

There are occasional items where the HF product seems to be the same as one of the lower-grade "brand names". It is had to tell if it is a knock-off copy, licensed copy, or actual QC rejects from the "brand name" production run.

The only HF store I've been was in Urbana-Champaign, IL. And the large home center places (Lowe's, Home Depot, Menard's and Farm&Fleet) were just a couple blocks away. And many times, HF didn't have the lowest price.

I've seen people pull ratty-looking coupons that looked like they were well on the way to being eaten by the wallet and hand them to the cashier and go "Is this still good?" and the answer seems to be almost universally "yes". If they can knock 20-50% of any price, all the time, how much are they actually paying for it?

In the more expensive tools this gets even more important. Consider the 20-ton press I got for Atom wheel bearings - Harbor Freight had these which had some really scary-looking welds. Compare with these from Greg Smith Equipment. The HT0805 which now shows at $399 was $279 when I ordered it. The closest HF match would be the 65330-1VGA which crushes oil filters but doesn't have a pressure gauge, at $259.

[silver]

why did you go off on a tangent........I was merely saying a $6 pack of tools could have had your seats and center console out in 10 minutes.

I wasn't saying to buy a laser guided weapon at HF

[Karl]

[quote="silver"]
why did you go off on a tangent........I was merely saying a $6 pack of tools could have had your seats and center console out in 10 minutes.

I wasn't saying to buy a laser guided weapon at HF
[/quote]

Terry already indicated that he is in possession of a ratcheting wrench, I don't get what your beef is here!

[silver]

he said his didn't work right?  or did I read that wrong?

I just think it's hilarious that there's so much hate on this forum for harbor freight tool, such an elitist attitude..when they work just fine....at least their hand tools

a screwdriver's a screwdriver, a wrench is a wrench, but because it costs 99 cents several people on this forum act like it's a tool beneath them or the atom.....I strongly disagree.

TJ over.

[maverick1]

silver, when you were removing your seats did you first remove the center console and then the seats or remove the seats first?
I take it you remove the bolts on the side of the seats.
Secondly, not all HF hand tools are very good. I bought a set of socket extensions and when I tried to remove a stubborn bolt the entire extension twisted like a licorice twizzler.
I buy rubber gloves, razor blades, a stool from HF and they are ok.
Most power tools I had purchased have died within the first week.

[silver]

I don't remember the order.....but I posted exactly what I did somewhere in this thread.

[Terry Kennedy]

he said his didn't work right?  or did I read that wrong?

I didn't say that, so I guess that either I wasn't clear or you mis-understood what I said.

You're more than welcome to examine the bolt location at AtomFest and see if your tool would do a better job with it.

I just think it's hilarious that there's so much hate on this forum for harbor freight tool, such an elitist attitude..when they work just fine....at least their hand tools

You haven't seen anything close to the maximum level of tool hate here. Go look over at Garage Journal. As a specific example, there was a thread a year or so ago about some Snap-On flare nut wrenches that were broached off-center. The customer sent them back and got another set, some better and some worse. After contacting Snap-On, he got a "so what do you expect?" run-around.

[silver]

ha it's all good.......nothing to take personally!

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="silver"]
ha it's all good.......nothing to take personally!
[/quote]

I know. I was being serious - if there is a better way to do this, I'd like to find out because it was a real PITA. Brammo apparently changed a lot of pieces between my early Atom and yours (since none of my new panels fit without modification). It would be informative to compare your Atom with mine at AtomFest.