Ecotec, JDM Honda, USDM Honda?

[tigwelder]

Ecotec, JDM Honda, USDM Honda?

Am I correct in understanding that the American Atom is now available with a Honda Engine?
If so, is it a JDM version or USDM? Basically is the timing belt cover on the left or right? (When seated in the Arielâ??s drivers seat of course) Additionally, does the Ecotec have favorable EPA emission standards?

Thanks,
TW

[Bruce Fielding]

Remember, the engine is the 'wrong' way around.

And the best people to answer these sorts of questions are the factory (unless it's just idle curiosity...)

[tigwelder]

Thanks Bruce,
I agree the factory is the best place to ask this question. But I like the forum format and it helps to answer questions that others may be thinking with out have Craig on the phone all day.

Also, not sure about the wrong way around? If you â??spinâ?� the engine around you would have five speeds in the reverse direction. The Engine in the original Ariel is drawn straight back if you follow my description. For example if the timing covers were on the right in the civic it was lifted from then they have to remain on the right. You can not spin the engine around.

The reason this is an issue for us American blokes (did I spell that correct?) is the majority of USDM Civic engines are left side timing cover. I am no Honda expert, but I believe only 2 models are set up this way and they are Acuraâ??s and have right side timing covers in the USDM market. This might affect parts and upgrades. Why Honda did this is beyond me. Correct me if I am wrong, but a UK civic the timing covers are on the right hand side, correct. Well here they are on the left.

I hope I got that basically correct!

Thanks,
TW

[McFred]

A limited offer of 9 Honda K20 Drivetrains for 2006 are/were available since April 8th. 
It is not known if there will be any other Honda drivetrains available in the future. 
When I asked Craig Bramscher I got this:

"CAB: Japenese Spec - Civic SI R motors. "

In regards to the JDM gearbox he responded:

"CAB: this is the LSD unit."

That's what I know.

The timing chain should be on the right hand side if sitting in the driver's seat.

[ross]

It is on the right hand side when looking at the car from the rear.

[jaimin]

ok tigwelder, why does it matter what side the timing chain is on?

[Bruce Fielding]

Can someone explain to me where I got the notion that the engine was on the 'wrong way around' on an Atom? I'm sure someone who should know told me once - or maybe that was the Rover engine - I'm probably getting confused in my dotage...

[Ron Hixon]

I believe that the engine used is a Japanese specification engine that rotates in the opposite direction to the equivalent UK spec engine used in cars such as the S2000

Ron

[Bruce Fielding]

So, I'm not going nuts then...

Incidentally, Ron - Had a great tea with Alex on Sunday - we're coming down to visit in the Summer... so I can make him scream like a girlie in the passenger seat again...

[Ron Hixon]

Your more than welcome to visit with his family - let me know when you are down

Ron

[Matt F]

[quote="tigwelder"]Also, not sure about the wrong way around? If you â??spinâ?� the engine around you would have five speeds in the reverse direction.[/quote]
That's only if the transaxle remains the same. 

If the ring gear remains on the same side of the differential, you'll have multiple reverse gears.  If's it's flipped around and moved to the other side, it works normally.

The Ecotec does indeed have favorable EPA emission standards.  (Guess what the "Eco" part stands for...)

So, timing belt position aside, what's the difference between the two Honda engines?

[tigwelder]

As I said I am no Honda expert, but you donâ??t have to be an expert to understand that if you spin around a FWD drive train and mount it in the back of any vehicle, you will be going backwards. They must be drawn straight back regardless of market.

Jaimin, The reason it matters is because if the Brammo version of Ariel is set up for NON USDM it makes getting spare engines / transaxles difficult. Especially for a car that is marketed as a â??track dayâ?� car. The car should be set up to use USDM Honda parts not JDM, UK, or otherwise.

Ron,
Are you sure the UK and JDM versions spin opposite? I thought the only â??odd ballsâ?� were for the USDM market. Apples to apples, I know USDM Honda Civics have left side timing covers, which means you cannot simply do a wrenches only swap with a UK Ariel. Every Ariel I have ever seen had right side timing covers.

Matt,
Hopefully Ron, can provide answers on engine rotation. I would hope they are all the same.

As for transaxles, are you implying that different market transaxles are mixed together with other market engines, or that Ariel and Brammo are flipping around ring gears and such? Or did you just mean in theory? Practically it sounds a little far reached, unnecessary, and inefficient.

For the â??Ecoâ?�, many companies jump on the Eco band wagon to imply things that may not be accurate. I just wanted to know if it had favorable emission. Thanks for stating that it does.

So back to were I started, if the US Ariel is the same engine set up as the UK, then buying the Honda version if available, may not make to much sense based upon your intended use. I have seen some USDM right side set ups; I believe they were type R only. Not sure. Hopefully some super tuner can sum this up in a paragraph or 2.
So US buyers that love Hondas and have many spares, make sure you donâ??t assume too much or rely on simple one lined statements.

Thanks
TW

[Bruce Fielding]

...and now the confusion is well and truly established, we come back to my first post...

Try calling the factory... in all likelihood, they'll have the answers you're looking for!

[McFred]

Contacting the factory is always a good idea.  But for the reccord, ALL K-series engines spin clockwise if looking at the crank pulley, be it JDM, EDM, USDM, Australian whatever.  Honda used to spin counter/anticlockwise with the older engines (H-series, B-series, D-series, etc.).  No one "spun the engine 'round" it is a simlpe rearward shift from the front to the rear. 

Engines are pretty easy to source here in the States and transmissions are geared almost all the same (depending on production year) and there are quite a few chassis that the same /similar components came in (RSX, TSX, Civic Si).  The biggest issue I think might be servicing the limited slip differential.  But you would have to try pretty hard to ruin one of those and the new Civic Si here has got the part now.  So IMO there are no reasons to favor the GM engines over the Honda engines in terms of parts availability, especially when it comes to aftermarket performance parts.


Here's an illustration on engine position:
K20 swapped Civic, front engine, front wheel drive:


Here's an Atom 220, K20 rear engine, rear wheel drive:


Transmissions on the same side, engines on the same side, intake manifold in the front, zorst out the back, 6 gears forward, one reverse.  No magic, no funny business. Make sense?

[Ron Hixon]

I freely admit to being great expert in this area, but recall asking Simon a couple of years ago if the engine in the Atom was out of the S2000 and he said no - it was a Japanese Import and I though that he said it was because it rotated in the opposite direction.....

Ron