Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

payne

Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by payne » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:32 am

Hi all.  I think I have found a good very low mileage early Brammo A2 245 (one of the first 10 built) that I should be picking up this month, and have a few questions about what I need to do to get it track ready.

Suspension:
  • The car comes with race rod ends, but they are not installed yet.  Other than replacing all the rod ends, what should I do before I get a cornerweight/alignment?
  • Springs - The car has the adjustable Konis.  I've heard that the stock spring rate and the Konis are not good.  Any advice on revalving and/or respringing before I cornerweight?
  • What is the story with wheel bearings/uprights?  I will be running the car on 205/275 A6s in the next future, so I'd like to fix any issues before I break something at the track
  • Anything else I should address, especially before I drop the coin for a cornerweight?

Motor:  Looking at all the ugly dyno graphs and horrible tunes I've seen searching, I'd like to get a tune done.  Before I do the tune I'd like to knock out a few mods.  I'm thinking:
  • Put on an 8 rib ATI Superdampener
  • Smaller pulley.  What's a recommended size for a 91 octane setup?
  • Possibly go to larger injectors and also get a (swapable) E85 tune for safetly/cooling effects at the track
  • Is the stock intake okay?
  • The car has the stainless system with a flex coupler, then a pipe up the passenger side into the muffler with an exit on the driver side.  What's the story of the exhaust failures?  Are they related to the terrible ultra-rich tune?  Should I expect to have issues after 6 track days and 3k miles?  Will that pass noise rules at Laguna Seca?  Are there aftermarket options that get the car quiet enough to pass?
  • What other motor issues should I look into?
  • Is there an updated Brammo tune I should get before I get the car tuned locally?
Misc:
  • What do I need to do to get the intercooler system working most efficiently? Reverse the flow?  Convert to a dual pass?
  • If I replace the fuel filler neck gasket, is it easy to upgrade the fuel pump at the same time?  I may go turbo/350rwhp in the future, and I've got a Walbro 255 laying around, so I might as well do it while I'm in the tank, no?
  • What about the braking system?  Should I go to Motul, or do most people run standard Synth DOT III stuff?
  • Anything else I should look into before spirited driving so that I don't dead myself?
Thanks,
Jason

Driver

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Driver » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:39 am

Considering it's a Brammo I assume you are in the States. You might want to put your location either in your signature line or in your personal text area in your profile so people can recommend places that might help you in your area.

payne

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by payne » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:30 am

[quote="Driver"]
Considering it's a Brammo I assume you are in the States. You might want to put your location either in your signature line or in your personal text area in your profile so people can recommend places that might help you in your area.
[/quote]

Done :)

Gage

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Gage » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:25 pm

I have an early Brammo as well.  Subscribing.  =)

RyanD

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by RyanD » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:11 pm

I'll comment on a couple of the items that I have experience with.

I like the optional "race" springs from Brammo.  They seem to get along much better with my adjustable Konis.  You should be able to search the forum for the specs and order them from any supplier.  One other thing before you corner weight the car is to decide if you want to lower the car some and by how much.  I think a lot of us have lowered the car by 0.5-1".  Also, do a search for the alignment specs that people are using.  The Brammo specs are not optimal.

The exhaust flex coupler fails from vibration.  I took that section of the exhaust off my car and had an exhaust shop replace the flex section with a solid section.  They welded one end and made the other end a slip joint, which I secured with a heavy duty exhaust clamp.

I run Motul 600 brake fluid, but I'm not sure how necessary it is.  The Atom brakes shouldn't get as hot as in a normal sized car, but it's cheap insurance.

I also run Royal Purple oil in my car.

Karl

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Karl » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:50 pm

Suspension:
You will probably want stiffer springs. The stock spring setup, in my experience, made snap oversteer more pronounced. At the very least, remove the helper springs; they don't seem to have any effect on ride quality.
Your rear wheel bearings will fail, it's just a question of when. I hear that replacement rear uprights (that use a newer, larger bearing and design) and bearings are available from Ariel/TMI, but barring that, the two trusted aftermarket sources are Palatov Motorsport and Unique Fabricating.

Motor:
I don't know much about the Ecotec, but the Honda cars from Brammo shared the same exhaust setup, and it is 100% garbage. Problems with it include: cracked welds, blown out flange gaskets, blown out flex couplers, rattling muffler inserts, and the fact that that it's just not very good, even when it works. The preferred aftermarket solution is from HyTech exhaust in the LA area; they produce a beautiful product and can weld it up based on their buck, without needing your car to do the fitting. If a turbo is in your future, you may want to hold off on the exhaust.
For sound management, you have two options. Either supplemental muffling (SuperTrapp or similar), which still has its issues, or turbocharging, which is a largely unexplored area except for DarthChicken and his SubarAtom.
The stock intake on this car would probably be the "dryer hose" style intake. The hose has a tendency to acquire holes, usually through vibration and rubbing up against other parts in the engine bay. A short intake with a cone filter is a possible replacement and helps to direct intake sound away from passenger side (good if you plan on keeping the roots blower).

Misc:
Fuel filler and fuel pump have are two separate cutouts in the tank. The filler gasket is passenger side and is relatively simple to replace. The pump is buried deep in the driver side and requires removal of the firewall to extract. Since the pump gasket is made of the same gasoline-incompatible material, you will want to replace it as well. If your replacement pump fits, then you might as well put it in.
If your car comes with Wilwood brake reservoirs, you will probably want to budget a replacement (Tilton makes a much better part). The chassis vibration will eventually cause the Wilwood reservoirs to crack and leak brake fluid all over your footwell. I've been running ATE Typ200/Super Blue with zero issues.
A less common problem, but one that could still ruin your day, is the failure of the brake light switch. Some drivers have had it eject itself from the master cylinder banjo bolt that it is glued into. When this happens, you get (potentially hot) brake fluid to the crotch. A few folks have made one-off solutions using limit switches or brake lights switches for motorcycles.

Terry Kennedy

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Terry Kennedy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:01 pm

payne wrote: What is the story with wheel bearings/uprights?  I will be running the car on 205/275 A6s in the next future, so I'd like to fix any issues before I break something at the track
You'll definitely want upgraded rear uprights. Both Tom at Unique Fabricating and dp from Palatov Motorsport make replacements which are a lot more heavy-duty.
Motor:  Looking at all the ugly dyno graphs and horrible tunes I've seen searching, I'd like to get a tune done.
Smaller pulley.  What's a recommended size for a 91 octane setup?
Possibly go to larger injectors and also get a (swapable) E85 tune for safetly/cooling effects at the track
Many tuners can't deal with the oddball GM Racing calibration that is in the Brammo PCM. You may be better off with a stock Cobalt SS PCM (2005/2006) and going from there.

You'll probably want to go with a bigger pulley, at least until you replace the whole intercooler system.

You can change injector sizes as long as you tune appropriately. There are a large number of available options for the LSJ. I believe one member here has a switchable gas / E85 tune.
Is the stock intake okay?
The car has the stainless system with a flex coupler, then a pipe up the passenger side into the muffler with an exit on the driver side.  What's the story of the exhaust failures?  Are they related to the terrible ultra-rich tune?  Should I expect to have issues after 6 track days and 3k miles?  Will that pass noise rules at Laguna Seca?  Are there aftermarket options that get the car quiet enough to pass?
If you have the molded intake (and not the "vacuum cleaner hose" one), it should be good to 300HP or so. Beyond that, you may need a larger diameter with a bigger filter, and possibly a larger throttle body, depending on what you're shooting for.

The flex is not the only problem with the Brammo exhaust. The headers can crack around the 4-in-1 collector as well. I had continual problems with the flange gaskets blowing out as well. I'm now running the Sector111/HyTech exhaust on mine. If I were doing it over again, I'd have a custom one done by HyTech to correct some issues with the kit one.

A lot of us (with a wide variety of exhaust configurations) had noise problems at Laguna Seca. Attempts to deal with this ranged from a collection of Victorian steam fittings (Tom / Randy) to putting the exhaust in the next town over (Gage). ;D It seems that the quietest one was a car with a turbo conversion (DarthChicken).
Is there an updated Brammo tune I should get before I get the car tuned locally?
There are no new PCMs available. You could probably buy a used one from someone here, but it isn't worth it if you're planning on changing the tune anyway. Plus, if you have the old "vacuum cleaner hose" intake, you'd need the new molded one and those aren't available new, either.
What do I need to do to get the intercooler system working most efficiently? Reverse the flow?  Convert to a dual pass?
There are lots of varying opinions here, and people have made a number of different changes to get around it. Best to read up on it.
If I replace the fuel filler neck gasket, is it easy to upgrade the fuel pump at the same time?  I may go turbo/350rwhp in the future, and I've got a Walbro 255 laying around, so I might as well do it while I'm in the tank, no?
Take a look at your filler neck before you tear into things. You say you have one of Brammo's first 10 cars, so you should have a RAM2xx VIN and an oval (not round) filler neck and not have the gasket problem. If your filler neck is round and your VIN isn't RAM2xx, you don't have one of the first 10 cars.

To get the fuel pump out, you'll need to drill out the rivets holding the firewall to the frame and remove the firewall. You may need to remove the driver's seat as well.
What about the braking system?  Should I go to Motul, or do most people run standard Synth DOT III stuff?
I'm running ATE Super Blue (alternating w/ their yellow stuff, which is the same thing except for the color). This is purely for convenience so I can tell when the old stuff is out when doing a change. I'm running Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 in the engine on the recommendation of my oil analyst.
Anything else I should look into before spirited driving so that I don't dead myself?
Make sure that all of the Brammo "oops" pseudo-recalls have been done. Off the top of my head:
o rubber padding on coolant lines at rear of tub
o protective sleeving on fuel lines
o anchor right rear brake line so engine belt doesn't cut through it
o verify intercooler fan runs in the proper direction
o verify correct shock absorbers (fronts on rears)

If the car hasn't been pushed hard since it left Brammo, there may be undiscovered defects / assembly errors. The first time I ran at Hallett, one of my coolant lines blew off because Brammo had clamped it on the outside of the bead, rather than the inside.

WorkingOnIt

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by WorkingOnIt » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:05 pm

From your background knowledge, you have probably already checked out the two sticky threads at the top of this subforum, but just in case, (or for future readers of this thread) here are direct links:

Brammo Atom 2 Essentials Thread

Check Fuel Tank Gaskets - Some deteriorate
Last edited by WorkingOnIt on Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Terry Kennedy

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Terry Kennedy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:39 pm

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
I'm now running the Sector111/HyTech exhaust on mine. If I were doing it over again, I'd have a custom one done by HyTech to correct some issues with the kit one.[/quote]

I received an offline message asking me what I'd change on that exhaust, so I'll reply here for everyone's benefit. Pretty much in order from header to tailpipe:

1) Go with a rectangular header flange rather than the one milled to the exhaust port outline - you can't use (for example) copper gaskets because some of the gasket ribs fall outside the milled outline. This is an issue with the factory gasket, too.
2) Adjust the lengths so the header/down-pipe assembly isn't such a tight squeeze. Ideally, enough so that the stock exhaust studs can be re-used and it can be installed without removing the rollbar.
3) Put a slight inwared flange on the header side of the 4-to-1 collector slider tips to make it easier to put together in the car.
4) Shorten the overall length of the header / collector assembly - the right-hand vertical riser comes within 1/8" of the roll bar, even with the slider tightening bolt all the way in.
5) Put more of the muffler inside the engine bay. There's a big empty space in there and the muffler sticks out the back.
6) Get measurements from each individual car for the muffler mounting tabs. On my Atom, the tabs were off by as much as an inch and 15 degrees from lining up w/ the Brammo brackets.
7) Add a provision for a Supertrapp. The 90-degree bend on the tailpipe is so close to the tip of the pipe that you can't slide the Supertrapp on more than 1/4" or so.

This may sound like I'm knocking this exhaust system - I'm not. I have one and am very happy with it (now that I got it installed). A similar list of Brammo problems would be a lot longer and have more serious items. As an example, un-doing the early Brammo 3-bolt flanges requires a pair of crowfoot wrenches with wobble extensions. A subsequent re-design to use an Allen-head bolt instead of a hex head means you only need one crowfoot/wobble, but you also need a wobble Allen of the correct size.

Karl

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Karl » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:31 am

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
7) Add a provision for a Supertrapp. The 90-degree bend on the tailpipe is so close to the tip of the pipe that you can't slide the Supertrapp on more than 1/4" or so.
[/quote]

John@HyTech says that they started doing this by default for later build exhausts. They added a straight section at the exit so that you can slide on their SuperTrapp adapter.

payne

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by payne » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:17 am

So it looks like I should replace the intake (if vacuum cleaner) and exhaust before tuning and get new rear uprights and springs before cornerweighting?

Any idea what the complete HyTech exhaust costs?  $1500?  $2500?

Karl-  What spring rates are you running?  I was very impressed with your setup.  Are you on stock valving on your Konis?

Cheers,
Jason

silver

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by silver » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:07 pm

cooling is the key....A lot of us have gone to great lengths to reduce heatsoak, the few that have succeeded went turbo, or mounted an intercooler in front of the rad, however, that leat to the water temps getting too high under some circumstances.

It really depends on your climate, I went auto crossing yesterday and IAT1 was 116..so this ecu will pull out power at around 130 I think, which doesn't leave much room for heat...however if you were in a cooler climate with IAT1 at 80 70 or 60, then heatsoaks not such a big deal.

air intake, either buy tom's from tom for around $300-$350 can't remember which or have someone who can weld aluminum make you one to go straight out the side, easy cheap and it works great......some might be concerned about water getting in the intake, I just don't drive the car under water so I don't worry about it lol.

there is nothing special about tuning the car, but like terry mentioned the ecu might need to be swapped, but once it's accessible then tuning is not a problem, DO NOT BUY A CANNED TUNE they don't work, have someone actually tune your car from scratch.

payne

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by payne » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:18 pm

[quote="silver"]
cooling is the key....A lot of us have gone to great lengths to reduce heatsoak, the few that have succeeded went turbo, or mounted an intercooler in front of the rad, however, that leat to the water temps getting too high under some circumstances.

It really depends on your climate, I went auto crossing yesterday and IAT1 was 116..so this ecu will pull out power at around 130 I think, which doesn't leave much room for heat...however if you were in a cooler climate with IAT1 at 80 70 or 60, then heatsoaks not such a big deal.

air intake, either buy tom's from tom for around $300-$350 can't remember which or have someone who can weld aluminum make you one to go straight out the side, easy cheap and it works great......some might be concerned about water getting in the intake, I just don't drive the car under water so I don't worry about it lol.

there is nothing special about tuning the car, but like terry mentioned the ecu might need to be swapped, but once it's accessible then tuning is not a problem, DO NOT BUY A CANNED TUNE they don't work, have someone actually tune your car from scratch.


[/quote]

Thanks!  I'll be getting my fab guy to make me a roll bar, will get him to make me an AL intake while he's at it.

WRT heat - Is it just the heat exchanger that is insufficient?  I read the entire thread on the HE upgrades twice, and still don't understand what the problems/solutions are.  What about an oil cooler?  Is it easy to get an oil cooler installed on the LSJ?

I've had a few LSx cars in my day, and race with a lot of LSx guys, so I know the importance of a good tune.  I race/shoot/drink/bowl with a HP Tuners wizard, so I've got tuning covered.

Cheers,
Jason

Terry Kennedy

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by Terry Kennedy » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:31 pm

[quote="payne"]
WRT heat - Is it just the heat exchanger that is insufficient?  I read the entire thread on the HE upgrades twice, and still don't understand what the problems/solutions are.  What about an oil cooler?  Is it easy to get an oil cooler installed on the LSJ?[/quote]

Compressing air makes it hotter. Smaller pulley = higher pressure = more heat = less power.

The stock supercharger on the LSJ is fine for the GM factory 205HP rating. The GM Performance Stage 3 kit offered a peak 260HP on 100 octane. So the Brammo "300" was a bit optimistic. :doh:

People have tried to get cooler air into the LSJ via a number of methods - bigger intercooler radiator, fiddling with the laminova endplate, swapping out the Eaton for a Harrop, water / meth injection. And then there are those who have pulled the supercharger off and gone turbo instead.

The LSJ's block-mounted oil cooler actually isn't that bad. The big reason to go with a remote one is to get a remote oil filter - the block-mounted filter position on a Brammo LSJ is a real pain to work with. The normal way of adding a remote filter is by removing the cooler from the block and using a new endplate with hose fittings. You then plumb a loop with a filter base and cooler. There's also a spring that you need to put in the old filter housing or Bad Things will happen.

nickpoore

Re: Getting Early Atom2 safe/track ready

Post by nickpoore » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:18 am

Disclaimer: I'm currently selling a molded intake & ECU.

If you have an early car, you probably have the 'dryer hose' air intake; you sould change it.
Either get a molded intake, or make a straignt intake to get air from the driver's side.

My suspension runs 4" from the ground, measured from the center of thewer rear crossbar.
I run -2 camber, and 0 toe in and out.  Everyone else will have their own opinion on these.

TMI have upgraded washers for the front and rear uprights.
One of the reasons that the bearings fail is because these washers were not hard enough.
Definately a good thing to consider before upgrading uprights.

Shinoo's (Hytech) exhaust is $2500.  It seems to be holding up well,  but still has issues with sound at Laguna Seca.

If doing engine upgrades, be careful if going beyind ~280HP, as the stock pistons tend to blow up after this.

Zip tie the rear passenger side brake line, so that it cannot rub against the serpantine belt.

Check the direction of the front intercooler fan (the horizontal one.)
It should blow up and not down.

There are two 'adjustable' Koni's.  The 2812's are what you want.

Good luck.

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