Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Heywood-Yablowme

Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Heywood-Yablowme » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:55 pm

SO,,I take my car to the dyno shop for my appointment...and start setting things up..and notice NO coolant flow through the intercooler system. >:( >:(
WTF! I had JUST tested it at the shop yesterday on my aux battery setup. I check for voltage and ground at the pump plug on the car,running....at the dyno shop..I have both. Yet,no flow.. >:( >:( >:(  Bad pump??  Whatever... :P
Now,I load the car back in the trailer,tow the thing home..unload...hook up my intercooler run harness/battery to the factory brammo pump leads..and.....the coolant is flowing. :H: :H:
Let's see...I have positive and negative voltage on the car harness lead...but no flow when hooked to the pump lead.... Hmm...gee..I wonder if the leads from the car to the pump are correct? They would have to be,right??    Hell,I drove it all this time hooked up like that...there is NFW the pump was running backwards...

 Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.   Not only did they have the pump trying to pull coolant backwards through the system,but they had the pump wired to run backwards...!!!!   Are you shitting me?? And,no, I did not ever have either the car plug wiring or the coolant motor wiring apart.  I pulled the pins out of the plug,reversed them and I now have flow on car power.Holy crap!

Quick bite of lunch and Back down to the dyno man...!!!!   Whoever said this was easy.... :laugh:  
Last edited by Heywood-Yablowme on Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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John Scherrer
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Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by John Scherrer » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:15 pm

Cool !

(Sorry ...)  ;D

I wonder if that's a one-off? Bet the're all checking right now ...

John
Atom 3 310 Supercharged (2011), Now Sold

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Bruce Fielding
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Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Bruce Fielding » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:33 pm

With professional service like that to rely on, it's no wonder that Americans are paranoid about rebuilding their cars when they get them fresh from the factory...

Not saying for a second that it couldn't happen anywhere else in the world, but it does change the inflection in the voice when remarking "...only in America".

(I remember that coming from something Stephen Fry said...:

"There is one phrase I probably heard more than any other on my travels: Only in America!

"If you were to hear a Briton say ‘Tch! only in Britain, eh?’ it would probably refer to something that was either predictable, miserable, oppressive, dull, bureaucratic, queuey, damp, spoil-sporty or incompetent – or a mixture of all of those. ‘Only in America!’ on the other hand, always refers to something shocking, amazing, eccentric, wild, weird or unpredictable. Americans are constantly being surprised by their own country. Britons are constantly having their worst fears confirmed about theirs. This seems to be one of the major differences between us.")
Last edited by Bruce Fielding on Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ariel Atom Owners Club founder, based in Central London

Gage

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Gage » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:26 pm

That one should also go into the warning list...  the essentials thread.  Grin
Last edited by Gage on Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DarthChicken

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by DarthChicken » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:25 pm

Mine was fine, checked a long time ago. 

silver

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by silver » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Aka, if you have flow it's hooked up right, and if it's hooked up backwards the pump won't turn on, right?

mine's hooked up right in that case.

DarthChicken

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by DarthChicken » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:41 pm

Makes me think the previous owner of this atom reversed this plug instead of the fan plug a few years ago when the notice went out.

Heywood-Yablowme

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Heywood-Yablowme » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:22 am

^DC,I thought that as well..however, the previous owner was a pretty bright guy,and this plug is quite inaccessible. I would have to say the same..employee..who left the hole open in my throttle body is the same one that messed up the plug wiring. >:( >:(

The pump was running,but backwards,so no flow. All this time...with NO intercooling at all going on.No wonder it only made like 225whp when the first owner put it on the dyno.

it's a little higher now......and we are not done.. :H: :H: ;D ;D
Last edited by Heywood-Yablowme on Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

DarthChicken

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by DarthChicken » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:34 am

How bright could he be, he sold off his atom to you  :D

silver

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by silver » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:45 am

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
^DC,I thought that as well..however, the previous owner was a pretty bright guy,and this plug is quite inaccessible. I would have to say the same..employee..who left the hole open in my throttle body is the same one that messed up the plug wiring. >:( >:(

The pump was running,but backwards,so no flow. All this time...with NO intercooling at all going on.No wonder it only made like 225whp when the first owner put it on the dyno.

it's a little higher now......and we are not done.. :H: :H: ;D ;D
[/quote]

umm so what did you finish at today.


and......if the pump was running backwards and the system was hooked up backwards that would actually be 2 wrongs making a right.............by running the pump backwards you were allowing the coolant to gravity feed into the pump versus all the rest of us trying to feed into the pump from the intercooler...no wonder you didn't have IAT2 issues before.

so before you yell kick and scream maybe they got yours right and just eff'd up the rest of ours :)

positron

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by positron » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:56 am

Being a centrifugal pump it can run "backwards" but not very well. It will always feed from the center tube and expel the outer circumference tube. Spinney things throw things outward no matter the direction. Being efficient at it, is another matter.

Terry Kennedy

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Terry Kennedy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:43 am

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

That may not have been entirely Brammo's fault. They had a rather large reject rate on wiring harnesses from their manufacturer. For anyone who visited Brammo back in the day, the large mound in the far corner of Tom's office was defective wiring harnesses.

And before anyone jumps in and says that's Brammo's fault for choosing a poor supplier or not testing, let me tell you a story:

BMW builds their main wiring harness themselves. Each one is custom built with only the options that are ordered with the car or selected as part of a "prep" option, like for the cell phone or CD changer. They do NO testing of the wirng harness - they just put it in the car and hope for the best. If something odd happens while the car is on the assembly like (like the horn blowing when the brake pedal is pressed) they'll investigate it, but there is no test plan to make sure everything works.

The selective build on harnesses is to prevent customers or dealers from ordering a low-spec car and then installing navigation, Xenon lights, and so forth. If you buy a replacement wiring harness, it comes with all of the possible options fitted. BMW figures that if you're crazy enough to pull the harness out of the car and swap it, you aren't doing it just to save a few bucks when ordering the car. Plus, stocking all the combinations would be prohibitive.

My car was built with 2 mis-wires that I know of. I found the first one shortly after delivery - the car would randomly call BMW and tell them my airbags went off. After a bunch of attempts by the dealer to fix this, I threatened to lemon-law the car. Finally they got a factory tech rep involved.

You need some background to understand the underlying problem. First, BMWs have an auto-dimming rear view mirror which consists of 2 parts - a large liquid crystal covering the whole glass, and a photo-sensor. When it detects light from the rear, it polarizes the crystal to a varying amount related to the amount of light. Second, some models of BMWs have switches in the headliner for things like BMW Concierge, Roadside Assistance, and so forth. My car has the auto-dimming mirror, but not the headliner switches (that's only available in the 5 series, not my 3).

Due to a mis-wire that routed the photo-sensor to the telephone control box, whenever there was a rapid transition from dark to light behind the car (for example, someone flashing their headlight on and off, or if they hit a pothole), the photo-sensor would cause the telephone control box to call BMW and report an accident. It didn't happen if the light level changed gradually, only if there was a rapid transition.

In the course of investigating how prevalent this sort of thing was, I found another BMW owner who said his rear-view mirror looked like a "lava lamp". It turns out that on his car, BMW had mis-wired the liquid crystal to one of the speaker wires.

The second mis-wire I found on my car was that the connector for the auxiliary audio input had 2 pins transposed. That meant that when optional aux in adapter was installed, it would not be detected by the stereo.

I actually spent over an hour in person with the Chairman / CEO of BMW USA (Tom Purves) as well as several hours on the phone with the manager of the BMW plant in Regensburg, Germany that built my car, discussing both my specific issue as well as the larger general problem - that a company can't expect final QC to be done by the dealer or the purchaser, and that stuff like this needs to be found and fixed at the factory when the car is being built. I didn't make much of a dent in their thinking, though.

benyeats

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by benyeats » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:00 am

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]

In the course of investigating how prevalent this sort of thing was, I found another BMW owner who said his rear-view mirror looked like a "lava lamp". It turns out that on his car, BMW had mis-wired the liquid crystal to one of the speaker wires.

[/quote]

I may well do this to my car later

Ben

McFred

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by McFred » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:25 pm

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

Mine has never had this issue, or the multitude of other Ecotec issues either.  Image

Gage

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post by Gage » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:28 pm

[quote="McFred"]
[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

Mine has never had this issue, or the multitude of other Ecotec issues either.  Image
[/quote]

Oh HA HA for you Mcfred!   ;)    There may be a few other unique things about yours as well.

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