Billet bellcranks?

[DarthChicken]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="MrWoolery"]I would be put my engineering efforts into areas that would strongthen the customer base for the US market...such as finding ways to get the ODBII codes cleaned up so cars could be registered easier in smog testing states.[/quote]

Please remember that there are things Brammo can do internally, and then there are things that require the cooperation of large outside corporations. The bellcranks are an example of the first; the ECU is an example of the second.

I've spent two days out here at Brammo this trip, and I can assure you that things are being worked on. In particular, I've discussed the issues with various OBD-II codes and I have a thorough understanding of the situation. I'm not going into details right now because some of this requires me to experiment on my car when I get back, and some of it relates to potential future offerings from Brammo.

I believe that I will end up with an Atom that does not throw any spurious codes.

Please trust me when I say that this is being worked on, and that additional inquiries to Brammo about the "usual suspects" codes (P010x, P0230, P0650) isn't necessary and will just take their time away from a) doing what needs to be done about this issue, and b) getting people's cars out the door. I've sort of been appointed "code guy" by a bunch of folks on the board, and I'll be happy to add any other codes that get thrown by the car to the list I'm tracking / working on.

Also, if anyone has other oddball codes, I have the same set of engine manuals that Brammo has, and I'll be glad to look up codes and interpret them for you. After that, if you stll have questions about oddball codes, feel free to ask Brammo.
[/quote]

Terry, thank you!  This is HUGE, and the work that you are doing is going to save many headaches in the future. 

[wisp]

[quote="nicolas"]
[quote="MrWoolery"]
"cosmetic upgrade only"...meh 

If it ain't an improvement (stronger/more durable/lighter/better ratio/etc)  I ain't botherin' with it.
[/quote]

If it's only a cosmetic upgrade, why would the develop it.
Is a billet bellcrank EASIER to make?
Is a billet bellcrank CHEAPER to make?
Is a billet bellcrank STRONGER than the other one.

I suspect that the answer to 1 & 2 is no.
So, I surely hope that the answer to number 3 is yes, otherwise there was no reason for Brammo to develop this part.
[/quote]

Number 3 is right on. You can see the construction would withstand greater forces than the original.

4 sexy or not? I would go with these bell cranks in any configuration even if they were the unsexiest option.

But then I have first hand experience of what happens to a weaker constructed bell crank when it gets loaded up without ample lubrication in the centre pivot point.

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="wisp"]
If it's only a cosmetic upgrade, why would the develop it.
Is a billet bellcrank EASIER to make?
Is a billet bellcrank CHEAPER to make?
Is a billet bellcrank STRONGER than the other one.

I suspect that the answer to 1 & 2 is no.
So, I surely hope that the answer to number 3 is yes, otherwise there was no reason for Brammo to develop this part.
[/quote]

You forgot 4:
Is a billet bellcrank LIGHTER than the other one.

Yes. When the US original one is steel and the billet is aluminum. No when the original is aluminium as on the UK/International Atom.

Oh, and as you can see, whatever they're made from, it pays to keep them well lubed! To be fair, Wisp's is from a Mk1...

[Driver]

UK/International Atom? I doubt that. The UK isn't the only "international" one.... Brammo sells to Canada..    

[wisp]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
You forgot 4:
Is a billet bellcrank LIGHTER than the other one.

[/quote]

No, I covered 4.
That's if it were sexy or not. 

Remember...
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
That's absurd.

You forgot Q.4:

Is it sexier?

This is the thing that'll sell it... I suspect, regardless of the outwardly purported reason...
[/quote]

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="Driver"]
UK/International Atom? I doubt that. The UK isn't the only "international" one.... Brammo sells to Canada..   
[/quote]

And the World Series is a... er... world series...?

[Driver]

I didn't know you followed poker Bruce. Why, yes, they have players from all over the world in those games... 

[Bruce Fielding]

I thought that was the WPT? aka 'whipped'

[Driver]

That's only one tour of poker games. There are plenty of others.

[dp]

by the way, the brammo atoms have proper needle bearings in the pivot.  this is true of both standard and billet items.  i don't know if they would work with the UK chassis (which as far as i know use a solid bushing for the pivot and tend to bind up if not religiously lubricated).

[dingo]

US and UK bell cranks are not cross compatible. 
The pivot post of one is 25 mm and the other is an inch. (25.4mm)
Also as mentioned elsewhere the UK needle roller bearings @ the bell crank include a thrust bearing, absent in the US design.

[dp]

ah, didn't know there was a needle option for the UK cars - only talked to a couple people who had the solid bushing and had issues with it.  good to know it was updated.  thrust bearings are a good idea although the brammo approach of using a thrust washer is quite functional - the thrust loads should be relatively small (on the order of a few lbs).  on the dp1 i use opposed conical bearings and full seals for the bellcranks to take care of radial and axial loads.

[wisp]

[quote="dp"]
by the way, the brammo atoms have proper needle bearings in the pivot.  this is true of both standard and billet items.  i don't know if they would work with the UK chassis (which as far as i know use a solid bushing for the pivot and tend to bind up if not religiously lubricated).


[/quote]

Is this a steel or aluminum bell crank? If it's the later I don't think it was enough mechanical strength in the construction (welds and plate thickness) for the job it does, regardless of the bearing. Billet cranks have way more meat in them and I am seriously considering having some laser cut for my car.

BTW : There is a rod end connected to the lower part of the bell crank, in the picture. This was damaged when the bell crank failed on my Atom. It may be of interest to American owners that I could not find the original brand of rod end used by Ariel. Instead I sourced an equivalent from a local racing component supplier who stocks QA1 from the USA. The QA1 XM rod ends are constructed from chrome moly steel and have a hard chrome plated, precision ground, 52100 bearing steal ball. Both metal components are heat treated. The race is Teflon® /Kevlar®, self-lubricating and self-sealing.

[dp]

the picture is of the standard steel item.  you are correct, an alum one would need to be thicker (it is).  i believe the stock brammo bellcranks are a good design that is properly engineered for the job and the only reasons for changing them would be either cosmetic (to billet ones) or if you wanted to change ratios and/or progression (something i may do later).

[bolus]

[quote="wisp"]

BTW : There is a rod end connected to the lower part of the bell crank, in the picture. This was damaged when the bell crank failed on my Atom. It may be of interest to American owners that I could not find the original brand of rod end used by Ariel. Instead I sourced an equivalent from a local racing component supplier who stocks QA1 from the USA. The QA1 XM rod ends are constructed from chrome moly steel and have a hard chrome plated, precision ground, 52100 bearing steal ball. Both metal components are heat treated. The race is Teflon® /Kevlar®, self-lubricating and self-sealing.

[/quote]

It would be cool if we had a whole section dedicated for product reviews.  Because a link like this will get baried and be difficult to find later.