[quote="Bottoz"]
I'm sure Brammo will get this sorted out. It just sucks that in the mean time, there is an issue. Please keep us posted with the results Jammer. Could Silvers' and Atomizers' car be flukes? Without further results from 300hp owners, we can't say for sure. I have my opinions... but dyno results of 300hp owners will speak louder than my opinions.
[/quote]
I count 6 300's with reported issues.
Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
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Bottoz
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
Ouch.
I don't understand... maybe someone can enlighten me. It's well known and published on many sites that the GM Stage 3 LSJ engine puts down around 250 crank hp. I posted links many times. It can make the 300hp, with the nitrous and 100+ octane fuel. But with just the Stage 3 pulley and pump gas, it's not happening. I don't want to disrespect Brammo, but why would they sell and advertise on their own web site a 300hp Atom that doesn't even come close to 300hp? It it a mistake, yes. Will it get fixed... I sincerely hope so.
I don't understand... maybe someone can enlighten me. It's well known and published on many sites that the GM Stage 3 LSJ engine puts down around 250 crank hp. I posted links many times. It can make the 300hp, with the nitrous and 100+ octane fuel. But with just the Stage 3 pulley and pump gas, it's not happening. I don't want to disrespect Brammo, but why would they sell and advertise on their own web site a 300hp Atom that doesn't even come close to 300hp? It it a mistake, yes. Will it get fixed... I sincerely hope so.
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bolus
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
I'm not sure the issue. my guess is that it is ECU at least partly. Brammo does not have control over this. They do have custom parts on the 300 like the intercooler endplate so it is not just a factory stage kit. I have a feeling that the engine is built for 300, but the ECU is holding it back.
They probably haven't Dyno'd a 300 car either. The didn't even have a 300 demo car when I got mine.
I'm not concerned at all. After having talked with Brammo guys like Joe and Tom a bunch of times now, there is no way that they would be satisfied leaving the car the way it is.
They probably haven't Dyno'd a 300 car either. The didn't even have a 300 demo car when I got mine.
I'm not concerned at all. After having talked with Brammo guys like Joe and Tom a bunch of times now, there is no way that they would be satisfied leaving the car the way it is.
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RyanD
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
[quote="Jammer"]
I went on an assumption there were alot of extra goodies that came with the 300 hp upgrade... from IC, to springs to all kinds of small stuff.
[/quote]
I have been told specifically that all of the upgrades from 205HP to 300HP are "external", meaning injectors, pulleys, aftercoolers, etc. No springs, no forged pistons, nothing that would justify >$5000.
I went on an assumption there were alot of extra goodies that came with the 300 hp upgrade... from IC, to springs to all kinds of small stuff.
[/quote]
I have been told specifically that all of the upgrades from 205HP to 300HP are "external", meaning injectors, pulleys, aftercoolers, etc. No springs, no forged pistons, nothing that would justify >$5000.
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Jammer
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
[quote="RyanD"]
[quote="Jammer"]
I went on an assumption there were alot of extra goodies that came with the 300 hp upgrade... from IC, to springs to all kinds of small stuff.
[/quote]
I have been told specifically that all of the upgrades from 205HP to 300HP are "external", meaning injectors, pulleys, aftercoolers, etc. No springs, no forged pistons, nothing that would justify >$5000.
[/quote]
If thats the case, and a "fix" is necessary...it may include parts that justfy the cost to some extent. That was a very hard nut to swallow knowing it could be brought to GM stage 3 on the cheap and that we do that stuff at our place on a regular basis, but I knew GM stage 3 "didn't" equal what Brammo was doing. ?
Please dont include mine as one of the 6 above yet.. no dyno sheet done here yet.
But man is it fun to drive.
[quote="Jammer"]
I went on an assumption there were alot of extra goodies that came with the 300 hp upgrade... from IC, to springs to all kinds of small stuff.
[/quote]
I have been told specifically that all of the upgrades from 205HP to 300HP are "external", meaning injectors, pulleys, aftercoolers, etc. No springs, no forged pistons, nothing that would justify >$5000.
[/quote]
If thats the case, and a "fix" is necessary...it may include parts that justfy the cost to some extent. That was a very hard nut to swallow knowing it could be brought to GM stage 3 on the cheap and that we do that stuff at our place on a regular basis, but I knew GM stage 3 "didn't" equal what Brammo was doing. ?
Please dont include mine as one of the 6 above yet.. no dyno sheet done here yet.
But man is it fun to drive.
Last edited by Jammer on Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
[quote="bolus"]
I'm not sure the issue. my guess is that it is ECU at least partly. Brammo does not have control over this. They do have custom parts on the 300 like the intercooler endplate so it is not just a factory stage kit. I have a feeling that the engine is built for 300, but the ECU is holding it back.[/quote]
Quite likely. I know that my 300 (a very early one) runs quite rich, as Brammo didn't want to burn the engine by leaning the mix out too much. I think this is one of the things that the forthcoming ECU update will address. I'm not concerned about what HP my "300" is making right now - I'm sure that when it gets the new intake and the other stuff related to the ECU update, it'll be just fine.
In fact, when I was touring the factory before my car was ready, I asked if they could tweak the drive-by-wire to limit the power I was putting down, and they suggested a block under the accelerator. It is probably fortunate that my car wasn't delivering the full 300 at delivery (if indeed it isn't - it seems plenty powerful).
I'm not sure the issue. my guess is that it is ECU at least partly. Brammo does not have control over this. They do have custom parts on the 300 like the intercooler endplate so it is not just a factory stage kit. I have a feeling that the engine is built for 300, but the ECU is holding it back.[/quote]
Quite likely. I know that my 300 (a very early one) runs quite rich, as Brammo didn't want to burn the engine by leaning the mix out too much. I think this is one of the things that the forthcoming ECU update will address. I'm not concerned about what HP my "300" is making right now - I'm sure that when it gets the new intake and the other stuff related to the ECU update, it'll be just fine.
In fact, when I was touring the factory before my car was ready, I asked if they could tweak the drive-by-wire to limit the power I was putting down, and they suggested a block under the accelerator. It is probably fortunate that my car wasn't delivering the full 300 at delivery (if indeed it isn't - it seems plenty powerful).
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
[quote="RyanD"]I have been told specifically that all of the upgrades from 205HP to 300HP are "external", meaning injectors, pulleys, aftercoolers, etc. No springs, no forged pistons, nothing that would justify >$5000.
[/quote]
Well, all of the tuners out there are basing their kits on the stock ECU, not the one that is special for Brammo. Installing one of those kits will likely throw umpteen zillion codes, if indeed the engine will move off idle at all (the ECU has loads of failsafes which essentially disable the accelerator if the ECU thinks anything is wrong with the car).
It will certainly be possible to get to 300 starting with the Brammo 205 and working with a tuner, but I expect it is going to involve lots of time and money for at least the first car at that specific tuner. And they likely won't have the factory support that Brammo gets from GM.
It all boils down to whether you think you're getting sufficient value for your money from Brammo, and whether you need to have Brammo backing you if anything goes wrong. I am confident that Brammo will have a 300 (if they don't already with the new ECU) and will stand behind their product 110%.
[/quote]
Well, all of the tuners out there are basing their kits on the stock ECU, not the one that is special for Brammo. Installing one of those kits will likely throw umpteen zillion codes, if indeed the engine will move off idle at all (the ECU has loads of failsafes which essentially disable the accelerator if the ECU thinks anything is wrong with the car).
It will certainly be possible to get to 300 starting with the Brammo 205 and working with a tuner, but I expect it is going to involve lots of time and money for at least the first car at that specific tuner. And they likely won't have the factory support that Brammo gets from GM.
It all boils down to whether you think you're getting sufficient value for your money from Brammo, and whether you need to have Brammo backing you if anything goes wrong. I am confident that Brammo will have a 300 (if they don't already with the new ECU) and will stand behind their product 110%.
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Jammer
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
Agreed 1000% Terry. One thing they wont do is say... Sorry, oh well. No worries for anyone not getting what they ordered.
Now, back to BotZ... try that 1" pully, meth and propane yet???
Now, back to BotZ... try that 1" pully, meth and propane yet???
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RyanD
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
Well, all of the tuners out there are basing their kits on the stock ECU, not the one that is special for Brammo. Installing one of those kits will likely throw umpteen zillion codes, if indeed the engine will move off idle at all (the ECU has loads of failsafes which essentially disable the accelerator if the ECU thinks anything is wrong with the car).
It will certainly be possible to get to 300 starting with the Brammo 205 and working with a tuner, but I expect it is going to involve lots of time and money for at least the first car at that specific tuner. And they likely won't have the factory support that Brammo gets from GM.
[/quote]
There are multiple ways to tune a car, and some don't involve any changes to the stock ECU. I'm not clear as to whether the Atom has a physically different ECU or just different programming. There is software available to edit the LSJ ECUs.
http://www.hptuners.com/
Well, all of the tuners out there are basing their kits on the stock ECU, not the one that is special for Brammo. Installing one of those kits will likely throw umpteen zillion codes, if indeed the engine will move off idle at all (the ECU has loads of failsafes which essentially disable the accelerator if the ECU thinks anything is wrong with the car).
It will certainly be possible to get to 300 starting with the Brammo 205 and working with a tuner, but I expect it is going to involve lots of time and money for at least the first car at that specific tuner. And they likely won't have the factory support that Brammo gets from GM.
[/quote]
There are multiple ways to tune a car, and some don't involve any changes to the stock ECU. I'm not clear as to whether the Atom has a physically different ECU or just different programming. There is software available to edit the LSJ ECUs.
http://www.hptuners.com/
Last edited by RyanD on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rfmarz@frontiernet
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
I ordered the 300 hp version also. I know there is a lack of volume in the production of the Atom and, as such, the cost we get doesn't have any economy of scale built in. I certainly would hope, though, that we'll get close to 300 crank hp! It was m understanding that a larger intercooler was necessary. I don't know if other changes are necessary as well. Any of these changes will certainly cost more.- How MUCH more relates to proper value is beyond me.
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Bottoz
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
About the Intercooler/Heat Exchanger/Dual Pass End Plate... It doesn't add any HP. None. All it does is keep you from loosing it due to heat.
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bolus
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
well, they are doing the custom mods to just the 300 cars, so I'm sure they fully expected the cars to have 300hp.
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Bottoz
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
I'm taking the blurry pic.
BTW, someone is taking the info they read here and posting in on dragtimes.com..... it's not me! I got a random e-mail regarding that site today. Someone has also posted Gage/Moysey's time and Atomizers as well. I don't mind it... but they gotta get accurate info!
BTW, someone is taking the info they read here and posting in on dragtimes.com..... it's not me! I got a random e-mail regarding that site today. Someone has also posted Gage/Moysey's time and Atomizers as well. I don't mind it... but they gotta get accurate info!
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1965Cobra427
Re: Bottoz' Atom Mods, Step #2
I have spent the last week and a half at Brammo working on various items including AtomFest and repair of some damage my car incurred in a recent involuntary off road excursion. I can assure you that Brammo is very much involved in getting the full picture on the 300 HP cars. They do have independent dyno data indicating that the 212-220 HP results do not represent all 300 HP cars. This is an issue of high concern for them and they are taking extraordinary measures to understand the issue and develop a solution.
While my car was disassembled, we discussed in detail, upgrading my car to increase HP. From that discussion it is obvious that there are significantly more steps involved in applying the 300 HP upgrade as compared with the 245. These include removal of the S/C in the case of 300HP but not for the 245. I believe that it will take Brammo a while to develop the 300 solution, but have no doubt that their customers will be taken care of. Brammo has communicated directly and privately with several owners who feel that their 300 HP cars are below par.
BTW, My 230 dynoed at Tulsa last summer with 205 RWHP on a DynoJet 248. Tulsa's altitude is about 700 Ft.
While my car was disassembled, we discussed in detail, upgrading my car to increase HP. From that discussion it is obvious that there are significantly more steps involved in applying the 300 HP upgrade as compared with the 245. These include removal of the S/C in the case of 300HP but not for the 245. I believe that it will take Brammo a while to develop the 300 solution, but have no doubt that their customers will be taken care of. Brammo has communicated directly and privately with several owners who feel that their 300 HP cars are below par.
BTW, My 230 dynoed at Tulsa last summer with 205 RWHP on a DynoJet 248. Tulsa's altitude is about 700 Ft.
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