Simulator software

[wisp]

MonsieurX, when he posted about his track day at Zolder, made the comment "I raced it online with GT-Legends". It got me thinking about racecar simulator software.I also now that quite a few professional racers use simulator software to learn tracks. Then there are those that just like to play PC racing games for the hell of it. I've had some fun in simulators with rFactor software. Nowadays you can participate in some good online racing.

Any gamers? What's your pick of racing software?
Does anyone use software to learn tracks?
Anyone use this service? http://www.iracing.com/home.html

When are we going to see some simulator software with the Atom as a choice of car?

[Driver]

It's been in one of the PC games I think but I want to see it in Gran Turismo 5.  It already includes Crates, Lotus's and some other lightweight vehicles, a Atom is needed. rumors are there will be a track editor too. Imagine getting Hallett about this time so you are a little more familiar come AtomFest II? I guess we'll see when GT5 ships. I remember a few years back they outfitted a Lear Jet with a custom chair, a PS2 and GT4 so Sebastian Loeb could learn the LeMans circuit as he didn't have any time between his WRC duties and the running there. Cost huge money to get it FAA certified for flight. There's likely other racing Sims that have good capabilities for custom tracks and such though. Simon just needs to get the Atom into those games.

[wisp]

Gran Turismo and NFS are referred to as racing video games while GT Legends and rFactor a referred to as racing simulators. So what's considered the major difference as they are all software.

I know rFactor has track, car and skin editors. The street circuit in Hamilton NZ was released pretty quickly once it was decided the V8 Supercars would run there. I've been hoping someone will come up with an Atom.

Driver,
Is there sim software for Macs? What is it?

[Driver]

Difference between one and the other is most likely in having some sort of editor, downloadable content or support for motion adaptive chairs, damage modelling and such. I don't know why one is classified one way or the other. I know which ones have realistic "driving" experiences though when I'm playing them. And thats why I've thought of Gran Turismo as a sim since GT4, especially with all the tuning options. Maybe it's the lack of damage in the old versions that kept it from that classification. The new version will allow damage on 'race' vehicles.

I no longer follow ANY of the computer (PC or Mac) based games unless I just happen to be somewhere and a friend is messing with it. Grew too disappointed after the recommendation of one person after another just turned out to be a lousy game. Learned to Just Say No but not before I had a shelf with 20-30 games at $50+ I'll never play again...

[wisp]

Wiki gives what sounds like a reasonable description of the differences. Damage and other real world variables being one and controls being the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_simulator

[AtomMadStew]

I love my racing games. I Know laguna seca and monaco from the likes of gran turismo (there something like the circuits i suppose) the ring on gt4 is supposed to be pretty accurate. I find there's either a very good representation of the tracks and the handling sucks or the cars are great for handling and the tracks are pants. Atom features on project gotham racing on xbox but unsure what tracks there are. Games are getting more like simulators every year. How else would terrorists learn to fly planes.

[Driver]

According to the Wiki (which is a conglomeration of personal opinions, press articles and speculation of which I always have to remind myself of)

real-world variables such as fuel usage, damage, tire wear and grip, and suspension settings.

I really like GT. All the other stuff turned me off years ago, so yes, I'm biased. The only part of the definition (per the wiki) that I can see Gran Turismo is lacking is Damage. All the others like Suspension, different tires with wear in some races and engine tuning, braking, support for steering wheels and pedals, fuel stops, etc.. is all there.  Polyphony has always called it a Simulator but I didn't really consider it to be so until GT4 came out. Doing the 24 hours of LeMans in real time convinced me. GT5 is shaping up quite nicely. The developer has already said it is far enough along to release at any time, which to me I take as holding off for the holiday season so Sony can offer the "must have" game and sell more consoles at that time.  I say this because the "sims" that are out there for PC's involve buying wheels and other stuff to make them work, all invariably for 90% of the people to play on a 22" LCD computer monitor. I have my PS3 hooked to a 46" HDTV and can, if I want, easily hook it to my 720P HD projector onto a 100" screen.  Many times I've taken it to a friends house for game nights, not so easy to do that with a computer setup. Unless something earth shatteringly great comes up I'm waiting for GT5 and until then get my fix with GT5 Prologue and it's online play. FWIW.

[MonsieurX]

i've tried lots of racing games since the 80's! From classic arcade to DBW sterring systems from delphi (for the v cars which are too slow and bulky weighty to mention)... Even the 6 piston simulation 3meters x3 meters platform come short. There's literally no connection between action and reaction like in a real car or a motionless game where you virtually feel and adapt to sound and visual stimuly.

Apart from the arcade games where "real" physics are implemented, i've felt real responses only in RBR - Richard Burn Rally and Sim Bin Games (buggy and stiff at first, but not so bad after and delicious thereafter...). Anything else i've tried is either a dog, slow, non responsive or un real. I wanted to build a chair and did quite a bit of research and it's coming up but until someone puts a 2 way rocker chair on roller bearings with a usb interface that does the G simulations, we're not there...

As far as i know (and without counting nascar and indy games from the atari back then), the sim bin simulator is the most precise and extensive. It's also really fluid with teh right video card. Top medium to Max perf HW is required...

Atoms... Games... The best Atom representation i find is in Sim Bin's GTR evolution. Formula BMW. Almost the same weight ratio and power. Just remove the aero help as much as you can... The race tracks are "pretty much" exact but you dont get the impressions of compression or G's in turns...

Since i got an atom, i completely lost the motivation to play with these games - you dont feel squat! But they helped me a lot to learn the ring, spa, zolder, dijon, etc... Games are not useless if you dont take them too seriously...

[AtomMadStew]

The F1 games are pretty realistic on ps3. Remember getting my first fix of driving on pole position game and then outrun. Never rated the steering and pedal setups. Gt5 prologue online is ok but its never usually fair non contact racing. If anyone has a ps3 racedriver grid is free to download the demo and you can play online
Against other players touring cars or muscle cars which aint bad and that has quite good damage. My best so far is gt3 the handling and susp settings worked a treat. Cant wait 4 Gt5

[jon b]

Any gamers? Yep
What's your pick of racing software?
ISI (rFactor) created the gMoto physics engine which has been used in a number of simulator titles under license including all of SimBins titles until 2008/9. This physics engine is an excellent foundation from where improvements can be made. Running at 90hz and using fudged data for suspension it is far from perfect but very good none the less. rFactor 2 I suspect will incorporate a number of improvements eg. More accurate suspension data and I would guess running at 400 hz. rFactor benefits from a huge "modders" community where you can pick up foc cars and tracks,from the sublime to the,hmmm not so.... www.rfactorcentral.com

iRacing incorporates exceptional graphics utlising dx10 and very accurately modelled car and track data, all running on a 400 hz physics engine.

There are other newish simulator titles such as NKPro which show potential and old favourites like RBR (Richard burns rally) which go from strength to strength but RBR is restricted by a 60hz physics engine

Does anyone use software to learn tracks? Yep
Anyone use this service? http://www.iracing.com/home.html.    Oh yes, certainly do

When are we going to see some simulator software with the Atom as a choice of car? Not for a while I suspect

Personally I've not seen a console title that I would consider as a true simulator. By their very nature these titles have to appeal to a broad and generally younger demographic and in my experience focus on glossy graphics over a true immersion simulator. They certainly do look stunning.

The most accurately mapped circuits (laser scanned) are in iRacing and with the introduction of Brands Hatch and Oulton Park in 2010, things are looking very promising for this company.

If you really want to get into simulation software I would recommend iRacing with rFactor 2 sounding excellent in 2010/11

[WorkingOnIt]

I was going to collect links to some of the previous game software threads, but almost everything I found was over a year old, so an update is definitely timely.

Here are some threads on physical setups, which probably don't go obsolete quite as fast:
from 2006:    PC Driving Games and Wheel-pedal Combos - thoughts?
from 2007:    Personal Atom training center
from January 2008:   Ayone using a hotseat racer?

The last thread talks about software as well as hardware.  Here are links from the last thread that still work.  Thanx to orig posters MadMaxedAtom, Wisp, MonsieurX, and Curt

http://www.hotseatsim.com/Products/HotS ... fault.aspx
http://www.hyperstimulator.com/
http://www.bobearlracing.com/
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/hardware  - lots of hardware and software reviews
http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/
http://www.brdsim.com/product/sim-tech/
and a 3-axis system "starting at $24,995"
http://www.simcraft.com/apex-sc830.aspx

[jon b]

Why are physics Hz so important. The higher the Hz the greater amount of "simulated" data can be transferred per second. So 400 x per second vs 90 x per second will allow for greater detail/ feel accuracy.

Try a logitech G25 in iRacing to feel the resolution or spend £1500 on a Frex wheel for something special

[MonsieurX]

Try http://www.bhmotorsports.com for a comprehensive collection of Racing games and all that goes along...

[ross]

I use the following sims and take part in a really excellent online racing series here:-  http://www.simracing.org.uk/

GTR2
GT Legends
and GTR2 with the Power & Glory Mod

I gather that iRacing is very good (should be given the developers behind it) but for me it lacks the cars/tracks that I'm after at the moment.  rFactor is good fun, but doesn't have the same appeal as the Simbin sims (GTR/GTL etc).

Great fun and realistic enough for me!  Here's my 'rig' although not really in the same league as Jon's setup! These monitors have been replaced now with some bigger ones.

Cheers, Ross.

PS.  that's not me driving btw...it's my lad Maximo.

[jon b]

Nice one Ross 

Maximo - now there's a name