Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

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Toilet Duck
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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Toilet Duck » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:56 pm

John Scherrer wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:49 pm
I have asked Tom previously if they were OK for me to publish the options and prices here and he said please don't.

You'll note that they never post any pricing info on their own web site.
I don't understand, why not? This is surely the perfect place to post it, on a forum for Atom enthusiasts. Why the secrecy? People can come on here and ask all sorts of questions, but for some reason asking the price is "taboo"? It's not as if anyone is going to order an Atom and a load of options without first seeing the prices. Bizzarre

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by John Scherrer » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:15 pm

Ariel will happily send potential buyers an Excel sheet via eMail listing all the options with UK prices with the VAT element split off etc.

The difficulty is that these are only UK prices, which makes things confusing when other internationals expect them to be the same but they're often not.
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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Toilet Duck » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:33 pm

John Scherrer wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:15 pm
Ariel will happily send potential buyers an Excel sheet via eMail listing all the options with UK prices with the VAT element split off etc.

The difficulty is that these are only UK prices, which makes things confusing when other internationals expect them to be the same but they're often not.
Surely anyone buying an Atom from a different country will have to convert the GBP price into their local currency anyway? It won't be up to Ariel to do that due to currency fluctuations, I'd imagine they would just quote them GBP prices with/without VAT, so basically the same as for a UK buyer. I don't see any reason for the secrecy, especially on an Atom forum in a thread for "atom 4 buyers spec discussion."

Can someone in possession of the spec and price list who is willing to share with a fellow Atom owner drop me a PM please?

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by jaylatti » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:56 pm

So I take it the gearbox can't be the type r box ? Just that the type r box comes with lsd and lightweight flywheel ? Must be the accord gearbox

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by simonrhart » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:18 pm

It's quite simple why Ariel would not want the price XL sheet to be published in the public domain, my best guess is for the following reasons:

1.) because the format they use is a XL sheet
2.) they want to be the issuer of the document

So if the document is in the public domain they are no longer the issuer of it because someone could change it without them knowing. This is not good for them. This is my guess based on nothing more than if I owned the company, I would want the same.

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by simonrhart » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:25 pm

Anyone going to opt for the 3 stage boost control? I'm not so sure this is worth the money as I don't plan on taking my car out in the wet and it will 90% of the time be a track weapon.

Mine is coming in at around £57k without the seq gearbox so a little more then I expected.

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by phil4 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:36 pm

simonrhart wrote:So if the document is in the public domain they are no longer the issuer of it because someone could change it without them knowing.

Simon
That theory has more holes than a sieve.

For example I have a copy, and I can change it without them knowing, just like everyone else they’ve sent a copy to.

And they can easily defeat this, by simply working from their own when they take the order.

I suspect it’s deeper than that, perhaps because they may change prices, perhaps because want the opportunity to upsell. Perhaps because they feel options need to be discussed.

But if it’s control of the sheet, it’s misguided, but may still be.


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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by phil4 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:38 pm

simonrhart wrote:Anyone going to opt for the 3 stage boost control? I'm not so sure this is worth the money as I don't plan on taking my car out in the wet and it will 90% of the time be a track weapon.

Mine is coming in at around £57k without the seq gearbox so a little more then I expected.

Simon
I was going to. Mine would be much more road based and while I don’t intend driving in the wet, you never know.

Also helps take some of the fear away when my wife drives it (I’ll leave you to decide who’s fear :)


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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by simonrhart » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:45 pm

phil4 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:36 pm
simonrhart wrote:So if the document is in the public domain they are no longer the issuer of it because someone could change it without them knowing.

Simon
That theory has more holes than a sieve.

For example I have a copy, and I can change it without them knowing, just like everyone else they’ve sent a copy to.



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Not sure I agree with that. I would say prices are technically IP for Ariel. There is a big difference between publishing a document on a public anon forum such as this one for all to see without anyone in control of it vs you sending it to a few people - see the difference here? yes there is nothing stopping you from sending it to others (after you had changed the prices) but reach is much smaller than if the document is posed on the internet. The only way to control this would be for Ariel to have a configurator on their website or to digitally sign the XL sheet but the latter is going a bit far. Not sure how you would consider this an implausible scenario. It doesn't matter anyway, just a theory.

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Hedge » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:54 pm

I do wonder why some on here are buying an Atom. The level of general distrust - for want of a better word - towards Ariel is a joke. Go buy another car, if you're that unhappy.

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by simonrhart » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:01 pm

Hedge wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:54 pm
I do wonder why some on here are buying an Atom. The level of general distrust - for want of a better word - towards Ariel is a joke. Go buy another car, if you're that unhappy.

Cheers,
Hedge
Huh! how do you mean? I've not seen any distrust here, maybe I'm not reading every post. Now I think about it, apart from the exhaust thing, granted I will leave it to Ariel to say whether such exhaust is needed or not or any other technical details for that matter as it's their car designed by them :)

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Luckky » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 pm

So, not to try and bring it back on topic or anything but can you post the basic occasional track but mostly road choices please?

I’m interested in your views on what’s nice to have vs needed.... I’ll post my choices shortly for dissection


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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by reg » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:23 pm

Hedge wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:54 pm
I do wonder why some on here are buying an Atom. The level of general distrust - for want of a better word - towards Ariel is a joke. Go buy another car, if you're that unhappy.

Cheers,
Hedge
I knew how it would pan out, but the fact remains that Ariel have pushed out a press car and banded about a headline price tag of 1 penny under the magic £40K. Have you actually added up the various elements of the press car, well I have, and, it doesn't begin with a 4, it's almost beginning with a 6, I wonder why there is a 'general level of distrust - for want of a better word'? Now. Moving forwards, call me Mr Cynical of 69 Limited Integrity Drive, but if you are going to beat Caterham et al with a big wet soggy fish then why not release the 'boggo' car to do so? Having been in the demo, what will the standard dampers etc actually be like, nobody knows. That's the rub. As an Ariel owner I was prepared for the fact that there just wont be a £40K Atom 4. It won't prevent me from owning the new one but lets call it how it is.

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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Luckky » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:35 pm

reg wrote:
Hedge wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:54 pm
I do wonder why some on here are buying an Atom. The level of general distrust - for want of a better word - towards Ariel is a joke. Go buy another car, if you're that unhappy.

Cheers,
Hedge
I knew how it would pan out, but the fact remains that Ariel have pushed out a press car and banded about a headline price tag of 1 penny under the magic £40K. Have you actually added up the various elements of the press car, well I have, and, it doesn't begin with a 4, it's almost beginning with a 6, I wonder why there is a 'general level of distrust - for want of a better word'? Now. Moving forwards, call me Mr Cynical of 69 Limited Integrity Drive, but if you are going to beat Caterham et al with a big wet soggy fish then why not release the 'boggo' car to do so? Having been in the demo, what will the standard dampers etc actually be like, nobody knows. That's the rub. As an Ariel owner I was prepared for the fact that there just wont be a £40K Atom 4. It won't prevent me from owning the new one but lets call it how it is.
Anyone who is really serious about the car would know roughly what things would cost on the old car so I don’t see what Ariel have done wrong here. They haven’t pretended that the demo car was stock, they haven’t promised that it would be cheaper, they’ve only given the price list out today and for me, the prices are not too dissimilar from the 3.5 so whilst I would have loved to have a free set of upgrades, I’m happy with the options list and I appreciate Ariel have released it early with some gaps rather than delay it further and wait for it to be complete.

I’m excited and to be fair, I still have 15 months left before I get mine so time still to refine the list for most buyers


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Re: Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

Post by Peter255 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:37 pm

Lets cut to the chase here everyone. Trying to restrict access to the spec sheet is pure marketing, and avoiding potential negative publicity.

Ariel market the car as a smidge under £40k. The review test mules were specced to over £60k with tasty £10k wheels, adjustable suspension, big brakes, handbrake, boost control, sports exhaust, optional frame colour, wheel colour etc etc. Indeed they may have been running the 350map ;) ;) But they were described as £40k.

Why allow posting and thus wider distribution of the option list with the £10-20K of options most of us are thinking about. Hiding all the extras makes it seem much more affordable and comparatively cheaper. £40k sounds good value. £60k sounds quite expensive. Its 50% more for flips sake! If you show everyone the sheet those interested will make their goal spec and then have the uncomfortable realisation of the true cost. Best keep that till after a deposit is down. ;)

But as Hedge says that's how Ariel work and we have to accept that or go elsewhere. :vroom:

I definitely want a decat pipe separately tho! Not worth paying £3k including a exhaust i can't use on track.
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