Atom 4 buyers spec discussion thread

[autobackup]

Why, in that case, would anybody bother to fit C/f wheels then - unless purely for the looks which, given the usual UK c**p weather contamination, generally won't be noticeable to 99.9% of the world 100% of the time!

- as I suspect that the weight saving of having C/f wheels would probably be about(?) the same as the weight of the full handbrake kit & caboodle!

[phil4]

The point that I was trying to make (obviously badly) is that the Atom 4 appears to be coming with a fitted handbrake as standard - it won't be a 'customer option' as it will be required for the issue of a Certificate of Conformity (and also needed for a MOT if applicable) to remain valid - if subsequently die-hard racers wish to remove it to save weight they would have to do it themselves and the car wouldn't then be 'road legal'.

I still don't get the argument here. Why would anyone remove a handbrake to save weight? what is the weight of a handbrake, calipers and cabling? probably a moot topic or very slim edge case I'd say.

I don't think this was the main driver in the previous car. In the 3.5 if you spec'd big rear brakes, you had to pay an additional £700 or so pounds to reinstate the handbrake. I suspect people didn't pay up, for one of two reasons: 1) They were track only or very close so a handbrake isn't needed, and £700 is nice to have or 2) £700 is money that could be saved for something not used much, and only checked at MOT.

On the previous car, you had to choose to add a handbrake if you had the big rear brakes, you had to tick the box. If you didn't you'd just have more of a challenge come MOT time.

Does the new A4 change this? I don't know.

[Peter255]

I think its a good call out around the different certification this time around. We will soon know what that means with respect to getting options included in the base package. Sadly i suspect much of what we want will still be a costed option.

With respect to the handbrake there will always be those who don't want the extra cost, and weight of the handbrake. It may be marginal but some of it is un-sprung and some people are very track focused. A few Kg really makes no noticeable difference, but its personal choice. Each to their own.

I'd be scared of damaging the super light and super expensive carbon wheels. But I am sure some will LOVE them. To me saving X Kg per wheel for such a cost seems ludicrous. It has been suggested maybe £10k or 1/4 the cost of the base car for the carbon wheels. Not for me but some will snap that up.

[Anon]

The carbon wheels do look very nice and will save weight. If I had money to burn, then I would add them to my spec. My car will be track focused mostly after-all so every little weight saving does help. For me though, I cannot justify ~£10k the next best thing is magnesium wheels as these do have less unsprung weight being lighter than alloy wheels generally.

There are a couple other cars that I really like in this category and similar price points that I did have a tough time deciding on to get instead of a 4, they are: Radical SR3 sl and track version and the Ultima Evo. I do wonder how the 4 will stack up against those two beasts assuming most performance options are selected on the 4. The evo being more general in that it depends greatly on spec and the engine that is used.

[HenryJS]

I will try to answer some queries briefly:

Handbrake is standard on the car - when speccing standard brakes.
Handbrake is extra with AP's all round.

Bilstein shocks come in single adjustable and now double adjustable (like the nomad ones)

Adjustable boost won't be 'cheap' but by the same token its not horrendous. Its also very handy in the wet.

Wings - Atom 3 Wings wont fit a 4 and 4 wings wont fit a 3. If you want wings - you'll have to come to us. Sorry! (we have spent an enormous amount of time getting the wings looking, working and made to the highest quality possible, whilst not increasing the price enormously) When you see them in the flesh, youll see why...

[autobackup]

Henry

That is very interesting indeed!

- how then do you envisage getting around the EU certification requirements if the AP 'big' brake package is chosen as an option - will anybody buying the AP brake option for use in the EU 'be forced' to specify the handbrake option so as to be issued with a valid EU Certificate of Conformity so that they can register their new Atom in (for example) France or Germany?

[Peter255]

[mention]HenryJS[/mention]

Are the single adjustable Bilsteins standard fitting or a costed option? What are the stock dampers?

Cheers
Peter

[Karl V]

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here on the handbrake debate...

I'm not a prospective Atom 4 owner, but a fairly recent Nomad owner having poured over option lists for 12+ months.

I must say, I applaud the choice that Ariel offers. Yes, some of it may be counter intuitive at times, like the 'Road Pack' that lets you drive your car home with indicators and brake lights and a tax disc, but Ariel owners are a very diverse and slightly unhinged bunch. There are people that will never drive their beloved Ariel on public roads and muppets like me that will only drive their Ariel on public roads.

It sounds like the standard 4 will have a handbrake and allow any owner to travel on a public road fully legally. If you are looking for APs all round then the chances are you are probably wanting to prove a few things on the track?

Anyway, I digress... What I really wanted to point out was: In the US, TMI AutoTech (Ariel North America) offer two types of Nomad - https://www.arielna.com/arielnomad/ - with a limited number of options on each.

I didn't fancy either. And starting at £60k and £71k (plus Tax), I would probably not be a Nomad owner right now if I lived in the USA.

I love the way that there is so much choice when specc'ing an Ariel in the UK. Everyone at the factory takes great care in going through all the options and recommending a build tailored exactly to the owner's needs. And you can expand / change components during ownership (when the wife grants you a new budget each year).

Would the preference be to add £600 (or whatever) to the cost of APs and throw in a handbrake 'for free'? That some people may not need or want?

I suspect that the guys in Crewkerne will have some challenges balancing Type Approval against the vast choice of options they have offered for many years. Removable steering wheel. Remote brake bias. Battery kill switch. FIA approval lights. Plumbed in fire extinguisher. Multiple suspension options etc. There is something here for every owner to pick and choose depending on their intended use of the car.

Personally, I'd hate to see the 4 (or should I say Nomad 2...) reduced to a limited number of options due to Type Approval legislation, but realistically, it is a threat. I didn't opt for ABS, power steering, dynamic stability control, power brakes, traction control or those shite run flat tyres on my X3. They are all 'standard'. At a great cost to me, thank you very much BMW.

I have admired Ariel for many years for continuing to offer their consumers a wide range of choice (pretty sure this thread would not exist otherwise). Type Approval can only threaten that going forward.

But...

[mention]HenryJS[/mention] you do my head in when you quote a price net VAT. Surely most customers are individual enthusiasts and not 'rent my car for the weekend' businesses who probably don't care about options or contributing to this forum? Why the business pricing? I can't get that past the wife. I need 'real' pricing.

Which leads me to my final words before going into hiding for a while...

I'm going to start a business renting out AP handbrake kits to 4 owners who may need them at MOT time. A bit like the 'club cat' in the Clubroom. (Membership available here - https://ariel.club/shop/club-membership ... embership/)

I'll be VAT registered of course. Henry - what's the net cost of a AP handbrake?

;-)

Love you all!

[HenryJS]

Some more question answering:

[mention]autobackup[/mention]
If you want to use your car on the road in the EU, and you want big brakes, you'll need the handbrake. If you are only using the car on track - you don't need the handbrake, but you cant register it. Its up to you as the customer to choose to register your car in the EU - alot of cars go there as track only weapons! Some countries in the EU will be forced to have a windscreen as well, yet it is still an option.

[mention]Peter255[/mention]
The single adjustable Bilsteins are a cost option. The standard damper is very simlilar to what we fit now. Steel body, single piece variable rate spring, non adjustable damping.

[mention]Karl V[/mention]
Type Approval wont threaten you options choices. Promise.
Also: our prices are +VAT as we have, both historically and currently a very large amount of overseas customers. That and Matt, Tom and I know alot of the 'consumables' prices off by heart and we know them as +VAT... old habits etc.

That and I'm sorry to say Sir, that you cannot purchase Atom 4 parts unless you have an Atom 4 VIN number... (and even then we need to know you own the car! as we have had calls from people that have quoted a VIN number for a car their 'mate' owns, to build their 'replica' Atom with genuine bits! I know that sounds a little uppity - but we really do want to keep the brand prestigious.

[Karl V]

...we have had calls from people that have quoted a VIN number for a car their 'mate' owns, to build their 'replica' Atom with genuine bits!

Maybe some people could do with a helping hand [mention]HenryJS[/mention] ;-)

[Peter255]

Maybe some people could do with a helping hand @HenryJS ;-)

I have to respect the time and effort that goes into those "home brew" specials. But at the same time they do scream DEATH TRAP. Oh well i guess a huge crash, flames and death is a suitable ending for such adventures! Lets hope no passengers / bystanders are injured tho eh?


Anyway back on topic thanks for the update Henry. I was hoping to see the spec sheet today. Delayed i guess.

[reg]

I picked up my car yesterday and was told the spec sheet would be 'in the next few days'.

I'll wager that the overall prices will match what they did on the 3.5, the wheels being the exception to that rule. I'm going to look at;

• Sequential Box

• Big Brakes

• Ohlins

• Carbon dash

• Project reg exhaust

• Classic Honda frame and body colour

[phil4]

I'll wager that the overall prices will match what they did on the 3.5, the wheels being the exception to that rule. I'm going to look at;

My guess it'll be ~3-4K higher, after all I've seen little evidence of price increases on the previous car through it's lifetime.

[Peter255]

I picked up my car yesterday and was told the spec sheet would be 'in the next few days'.

I'll wager that the overall prices will match what they did on the 3.5, the wheels being the exception to that rule. I'm going to look at;

• Sequential Box

• Big Brakes

• Ohlins

• Carbon dash

• Project reg exhaust

• Classic Honda frame and body colour

I'll wager the costs have gone up by 5-10% tbh. Hope I am wrong though.

Here would be my guesses.
Sequential box - no idea, but its gotta be £10k
Big brakes F+R £2.8k total.
Ohlins £6k
Carbon Dash £300
Non-standard chassis paint £1.3k
So thats ~£20k of options reg!

Tell me more about the exhaust!

[autobackup]

Peter

Let's hope that there is an alternative to the Sadev sequential box as the Sadev costs the better part of £20,000!