Ariel.Club Forum

Yes OSS looks fun. I would not do a full championships mostly because of lack of time, I travel a lot and secondly cost. The V6 Ecoboost is proven at least in stock form. It's from the Ford GT (tuned) and from the Ford Raptor. Radical RPE tune it at Peterborough from the 450bhp in stock form to 670bhp. The RXC is an expensive car to buy, there is no getting away from that.

Another cool (and relatively cheap series) are the Britcar into the night meetings at various tracks in the UK. These meetings seem expensive but the same cost as 4 expensive track days, like Silverstone GP but with much faster cars on track.

OSS looks like a lot of really fast cars and a lot of variety. I like that a lot.

I am not familiar with the Ecoboost. Is that a proven engine? The road version with the Ecoboost sounds like a bit of a risk to me. With the SR3 at least you know what you are getting yourself into. Some of these engine options appear more robust only one paper. For example, I only got 25 HPDE hours out of the Chevy LT4 but surely most would have expected at least 100 proper race hours out of a production engine. The Ford GT only needs to run for the media a few hours at a time.

The sequential cost for the Atom 4 is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of running a turbo V6 Radical in a championship.

I would likely race it in the OSS championships because it unlike the SR3 would probably be easier to run and cheaper - at least the road version with the Ecoboost engine. I've looked at the Radical Challenge but you can only use SR3's in that series and it's quite expensive, unless you run by yourself not in a team.

Finally, I would definitely do seasoned track days. So drive amongst Gt3's, GTR's, lambos etc. I think the Atom is more suited to this format also.

I really don't know yet, I will likely carry on with the 4 but dependent on the cost of that seq gearbox..I keep banging on about this but for me it's a must have! :)

Cheers
Simon

[quote=cvjoint post_id=291242 time=1544478098 user_id=5331]
Would you be using this for HPDE/open track days?

If so, I would consider that it may just be too fast. My Atom is the 230hp bare bones version and I was still the quickest at the last two HPDE in the fast group. At least there were a few cars within a second or two so I could spar and have some fun. With a car that's well over 10 seconds faster a lap you're going to get lonely very quickly!

I track from time to time with a friend that has an SR3 and he can drive it to its full potential. He will grid first according to lap time, do a clean lap and then get stuck in traffic as he already caught up with the slower cars that entered the track last. There was one LMP car that can hang with him in all of 2018 HPDEs, and he even passed that one.

Perhaps the joy of being the quickest will dwarf being lonely. ;D
[/quote]

Would you be using this for HPDE/open track days?

If so, I would consider that it may just be too fast. My Atom is the 230hp bare bones version and I was still the quickest at the last two HPDE in the fast group. At least there were a few cars within a second or two so I could spar and have some fun. With a car that's well over 10 seconds faster a lap you're going to get lonely very quickly!

I track from time to time with a friend that has an SR3 and he can drive it to its full potential. He will grid first according to lap time, do a clean lap and then get stuck in traffic as he already caught up with the slower cars that entered the track last. There was one LMP car that can hang with him in all of 2018 HPDEs, and he even passed that one.

Perhaps the joy of being the quickest will dwarf being lonely. ;D

Quite a bit of difference almost 6 seconds a lap. Thanks for the videos.

If I were to get a Radical, I would likely go for the RXC Coupe which is a road version, loads of torque and runs the same engine as the Ford GT, and Ford Raptor, the 3.5 ltr ecoboost so no rebuilds needed and it can be taken on the road driven to the track.

An RXC Coupe is around £90k for a almost new one, and over £100k for new, so serious cash. The SR3 is a lot cheaper.

I figured out a method to compare them while keeping other variables fixed, the VIR Full Course. There are many racing series on the that track and layout so it's probably a great track to compare them on:


Radical SR3 1340 RSX (220hp, sequential): 1:52.63
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6F3MlgP-Y0
Ariel Atom 3S prototype: 1:58.8 (365 hp, stick, aero?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd_ColytfjQ
Ariel Atom SRA (230 hp, stick, no aero): 2:02.73
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dce618e4b0bfba09c0e938/t/56d73c4b62cd9424aa85b34b/1456946327714/ATOM_BROCHURE_2016_email.pdf

If we are going to discuss the overall appeal of the Atom for track use, I will be the first to say it's the freaking best bar none! I wasn't even considering a Radical when I bought the Atom. In fact, I wasn't considering any other car, it's just THE choice for me. It was so on paper, and even more so when I got to drive it.

The Radical design is to use an engine for twice the weight it was designed for, the Atom design is the inverse. Radical owners are so conscious of the short rebuild schedules that they can't afford to run orientation laps, lend the car around the paddock, drive it near redline, or even to the pump! With the Atom it's a challenge, please try to wear out a stock Honda K series, I dare you. Just top up the oil and that's it.

The 4" ground clearance and lack of aero is another polar opposite. I can afford, and regularly do, drive the car past 10/10ths. I save it nearly the entire day, but I do have a spin out once every two track days. There is so much clearance that at worst I had to clean some shrubs out of the tub. The Radicals are very likely to break on off track excursions which is a considerable cost to the point that you drive it differently. For me, there's only white knuckle to the limit and past kinda driving so I'm inclined to never have a car with underbody aero or a low nose.

This third point is a sappy one, but bear with me. Half of the joy of driving to me is working three pedals and an h-pattern box. Few are as honed as the Atom's. The pedals are perfectly placed and weighted for heal-toe, the Honda box is one of the smoothest and most mechanical on the market. Even with the linkage, it's very direct. Sequential and DCT may save a couple of tenths in each lap but it's nothing to write about. That is perhaps the difference between optimal tire PSI and 1 PSI off. You need the man-machine connection to prevail in an Atom, but when you do, the experience is whole.

The Radical may have the revs, but you can match it in song with a naturally aspirated tuned K20a. Some of the midget cars use something like this that revs to over 10K rpm. It sounds better with 2 liters at that rpm to boot!

[quote=wasp post_id=291159 time=1544004710 user_id=1487]
There are cars that will always be quicker around a track than an Atom. Any well set up Aero car will blow your mind with its capabilities through quick corners. Sequential gearboxes area joy on track but usually awful on the road and running slicks in combination with the above means you'll blow most things away.
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[/quote]

Thank you for the insights, this is really very helpful. Which Radical did you have?

I know they are very different cars, the Atom is more well rounded, more power meaning you can power slide it round corners for fun if you want or drive it sensibly (fast). You can more easily take it on the road for a nice drive with the kids. It will likely be cheaper longer term and will probably hold it's value better given the 4 is brand new. It looks amazing, the wings I'm sure will be fantastic and are on my list. My wife thinks the Atom is the better choice and she knows nothing about cars :tu:

The Radical is attractive and I only started looking at one due to the price of the 4 puts it on par with race cars, at least for what I want. The Radical is faster round track, sounds amazing in my view better than the 4 at least from the clips I have heard. I love the idea of red lining the thing at 10k. I can race the Radical if I want, SR1 is quite low cost-ish option. Caveat, I would need to race with a team for this to work, which is an extra cost here. The Radical comes with a seq gearbox, I'm doubtful I will be able to fork out for the seq gearbox for the 4 but once I see the price I will make that decision. You get a lot of "free" with a Radical, adjustable suspension, LSD, Seq gearbox, data logging of lap times etc. It feels more ready for what I want than a base Atom does. With the Atom I need to spend a lot of money to get the car I want.

So there are pro's and con's. First world problems and all that, it's pretty cool we have such amazing cars built here in the UK.

Simon

[quote=cheeky_chops post_id=291158 time=1543960571 user_id=5305]
i think Wasp had a atom then various other track cars inc a radical but came back to Atom 3.5 and said it was the best, most sorted track car he had owned. I dont think it was sales patter! :-D
[/quote]

If it was a sales patter, the cheque with my commission seems to have been lost in the post! ;D

There are cars that will always be quicker around a track than an Atom. Any well set up Aero car will blow your mind with its capabilities through quick corners. Sequential gearboxes area joy on track but usually awful on the road and running slicks in combination with the above means you'll blow most things away.

BUT you need to ask the question "what is important to you?" Going fast on track is not the same as having fun. My old aero car could do 44 second laps around Brands Indy (even with me driving it!) but it was not even close to the Atom for enjoyment. You have to commit to every corner and drive at minimum 95% everywhere to get them to work properly.

The joy of an Atom is that it is so capable in so many ways. It's a great track car and also something that you can learn in. You need to be pretty experienced and committed to get the best out of Radicals et al. You can also jump in an Atom and go on a road trip which for many practical reasons won't work in a road legal Radical.

Then there's the big one....reliability. Anyone who's ever owned an Atom 2 will attest to the destructive forces of vibration. The 3/3.5s sorted 99% of those issues and in the 3 years that I had mine I never had a single technical problem. It was an amazing car that I could turn up to a track day, turn some dials on the suspension and pretty much do what I wanted then put it back on the trailer and take it home again. Apart from checking the oil and wheels there was zero maintenance. I serviced it regularly (at the Factory tbh) but it paid me back tenfold doing so. Radicals by their nature are less compliant than Atoms, which makes them quicker but wears components more aggressively.

This is why I have ordered a 4. If it can maintain the reliability of my 3.5 but with a bit more pace then I'll be delighted. I'll let any Radical owner by with a wave if they want to come by, safe in the knowledge that there's a higher than 50% chance that they will have to have the car up on jacks inspecting it for something during the day. It is not a car to drive if you are by yourself, you will need one other person to help take the bodywork off to check your fluids plus have a solid understanding of the electronics programme on your laptop.

For these reasons I'm happy being 3 seconds slower (oh ok 8 seconds slower if you've seen me drive!)

Cheers,
Stu

i think Wasp had a atom then various other track cars inc a radical but came back to Atom 3.5 and said it was the best, most sorted track car he had owned. I dont think it was sales patter! :-D

There are only SR3s around here. It must be that it's a popular model for spec series so that's all there is.

[quote=cvjoint post_id=291139 time=1543881419 user_id=5331]
A 3.5R on slicks would hang with it on the slower tracks. I'm afraid that on fast tracks even the V8 Atom wouldn't cut it. Aero is just that important.

There is a track nearby where my 230hp Atom won't go faster than 110mph, very technical short course. The SR3 is still 2 seconds faster. I conclude that its aero helps even on that sort of track. You really would need the 350hp so you can make up the time on the small straights wherever you can.
[/quote]

What about the RXC, the V6 version? have you seen those around your local track?

A 3.5R on slicks would hang with it on the slower tracks. I'm afraid that on fast tracks even the V8 Atom wouldn't cut it. Aero is just that important.

There is a track nearby where my 230hp Atom won't go faster than 110mph, very technical short course. The SR3 is still 2 seconds faster. I conclude that its aero helps even on that sort of track. You really would need the 350hp so you can make up the time on the small straights wherever you can.

I didn't think it was too bad either. It's similar to a Ferrari service as well, cost wise is around £3-4k which is not cheap of course but a lot of track time can be had. A rebuild is not the same as a road engine service, you are more or less getting a new engine as many components are replaced.

The cool thing is, it can be raced too and it is track ready in stock form meaning you get; seq gearbox with paddles, adjustable suspension, lsd, front splitter, diffuser, rear wing, 4 pot 280mm floating brakes, fire extinguisher, brake bias adjuster, aim and dry sump.

One major down side is they don't seem to hold their value like an Atom does, in fact I don't think much else does out there apart from some Ferrari's and GT Porsche's, not even an Ultima. A stock new 1340 SR3 costs £78k inc VAT but you can get a 2017 1500 almost new SR3 with low hrs for around £55k. And the 1500 engine upgrade is an additional £6650 + VAT on the £78k.

Simon

80 hours didn’t seem too bad. At 60mph that’s not far off 5000 miles, which while stingy compared to modern ecoboxes... ain’t bad for a performance motor.


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