Ariel.Club Forum

Im sorry to say, but its mostly the trolley aspect...

The anti squat cannot be adjusted.

Giving out specific measurements for our chassis is not something we do unfortunately! Sorry.

Its also not just the 'angle' of the wishbones ... (when you say flat, I assume you mean vs the ground, or 90deg from dead vertical?)

Not all cars have anti squat... the Atom 3 doesnt! Pretty much anything that has a live axle (unless you have 'slapper' or 'caltrac' bars fitted) doesn't... Front wheel drive cars need the opposite - anti lift on the front axle...

Suspension setup is not straightforward at all. which is one reason that we limit adjust-ability to toe and camber.
On race cars there is more adjustment, maybe. depending on the level you work to. But not for an Atom, it just isn't necessary.

Ride height doesn't have much to do with squat (on an Atom anyway), it reduces the roll in an Atom 3.

This is now way off topic, so could we consider this particular avenue closed, certainly on the forum anyway.

If you would like to discuss further - please call me at Ariel!

I'm not sure if I am being clear or smoking something or completely off my trolley! But my understanding in how to measure or adjust anti-squat is how flat the rear arms are. The further they lean back the more you have and vice versa. Is this not correct? You said the Atom 4 has "anti-squat" - I don't understand this because all cars have it in essence it's just a question of whether it's configurable or easily or not instead of just setting rear ride height.

Simon,

Im not sure what you are referring to when you say 'only the Atom 4 is adjustable'

You can really measure the difference of degrees between the two anti squat systems, because the Atom 3 does not have one???

I get it, you will have anti-squat on a car without it being adjustable, and I understand it's only the 4 that is adjustable. My question was what is the delta (in degrees) between the cars. But you are correct off topic here and probably not many care about this. I'm coming down in April and have a bunch of questions so will ask then.

cheers
Simon

Simon,

Youre getting the wrong end of the stick.

No Atom 3 has anti squat.

Its just the Atom 4.

The two cars cant really be compared in this instance as the 4 is so vastly superior to the 3 in this area.

The cup car setup achieves as i mentioned above

Less roll
more mechanical grip
BUT
more lift off oversteer


If you want discuss further - please call me at the factory, as we are in danger of going a little

Thanks Henry. Does the 4 allow the wishbones to be more elevated than on the 3.5? Hence giving way a higher degree of anti-squat promoting the car to squat more? Because it seems the cup car setup likes this config meaning you can then run rake in addition to the anti squat as per the cup car? Just this alone will be one major reason the 4 will be miles faster than earlier cars I would think.

Less anti squat would mean that it squats more than previously...

The Atom 3 has no anti squat engineered into the chassis / suspension.

The Atom 4 does...

Surprising as the Setup is - a Cup Car Spec Atom (245 Bhp) is able to lap faster than a Supercharged Road setup with the same brakes / suspension. all because of the corner speed - its that much of a difference.


Hope that has cleared that one up!

HenryJS wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:03 pm Reduces Roll, improves mechanical grip and increases camber.

The Cup Cars had neg 3deg 45mins rear camber, and the way we got that was by setting the cars up at normal ride height to neg 2deg 45mins, then dropping the ride height 10mm and it pulled the camber in further.

Result: massive grip, less roll, but more lift off oversteer.

I see the rear is lower than the front, this normally gives more weight transfer to the rear on power and decreases steering so makes the car squat more. Interesting how the Atom 4 has geo changes to address anti-squat - all the reports doesn't say to promote more anti-squat or less anti-squat - based on advice from Henry I am guessing less anti-squat? I am surprised by this setup because I'd expect more weight transfer to the front on-power and what I've read is the Atom needs more front end grip to wash-out less and less rear grip.

It will be fun playing around with setup that is for sure.

Toe settings are exactly the same

Thanks Henry, that's great to know

Do you mind confirming what the toe settings are on the cup cars compared to an Atom 3?

Cheers

the cup chassis is only really different in the engine bay (to cars from previous years) and the welded on cage. It's purely a setup change.
Less roll
more mechanical grip
BUT
more lift off oversteer

with standard wishbones

-1deg 30mins max front
-2deg max rear

Cup cars could get double this with shorter top wishbones!

What effect will dropping the rear to 105mm have on a non-cup chassis? Am I right in thinking that you can't get as much negative camber on a "normal" Atom 3 as the cup cars had different wishbones allowing more camber?

Cheers

Reduces Roll, improves mechanical grip and increases camber.

The Cup Cars had neg 3deg 45mins rear camber, and the way we got that was by setting the cars up at normal ride height to neg 2deg 45mins, then dropping the ride height 10mm and it pulled the camber in further.

Result: massive grip, less roll, but more lift off oversteer.

HenryJS wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:37 am sorry I didnt see this!

120mm Front

115mm Rear

105mm Rear Cup Car spec

Cheers Henry.

What difference does dropping the rear by 10mm make (cup car spec)?

Thanks