Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D :laugh: ^-^ O0 :angel: :police: :td: :tu: :pop: :doh: :drool: :wize: :H: :rtfm: :fence: :google: :OT: :vroom: :checkeredflag: :embarassed: :faint: :roflp:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

If you wish to attach one or more files enter the details below.

Maximum filesize per attachment: 7 MiB.

Expand view Topic review: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by Heywood-Yablowme » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:08 pm

I have heard that Honda dealerships don't even have parts departments!  :D    I am still waiting to see the perfect car. Maybe Gods chariot? :angel:

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by DarthChicken » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:40 pm

Like you said, all in good fun.  Suffice to say. Don't think one is better than the other.  Tuning on the ecotec is less than 1k for the setup, etc etc etc.. 

A lot less than 5k, but my time is free (actually better than
free because I enjoy it)

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by McFred » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:51 pm

Despite my lack of forced induction I think I've got enough torque.  I've also got that extra gear to multiply my anemic torque, then and I've got fewer gadgets to complicate things resulting in less mass to push around and more power that doesn't heat soak and drop 10 whp each lap and roast the exhaust with million degree EGTs.

6th gear at 70mph is 3500 rpm.  You're off a little in your calculation. If that kind of thing bothers you you can go get the TSX 6th gear and swap that in for 15% taller gearing (70mph is 3000rpm).

As for the MPG thing it's hard to approximate driving distance when some BOOB at Brammo didn't set the speedo correctly.  ABQ to Santa Rosa is 120 miles according to the Atom caravan average.  My fancy Brammo caibrated trip meter tabulated 90 miles.  It's nicer to stop for gas than walk for it when you dont have any faith in the Brammo fuel level indicator.  As I recall I kept up with you Ecotec folk just fine for the prior 1500 miles.

My $5000 premium also bought me datalogging, Full tunability, OBD2 compatibility (despite there being no physical OBD2 plug) and a bountiful Honda aftermarket to provide me with cheap, effective and relaible upgrades.  Tell me what you gentlemen paid for your 300hp Ecotec Atoms after all the nickknacks, tuning, and troubleshooting that got you a consistent 250whp that doesn't falter after the 4th lap?

It's all in good fun though Image  ;D  When my engine explodes at redline I'll be the first to tell everyone about it.  :laugh:

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by DarthChicken » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:17 pm

[quote="silver"]
it's fun up until a point, then it's annoying and then you let your car sit in the garage for 6 months.......if finances were unlimited it would be a ton of fun but when the wallets' tight I'd just prefer things to work and not break  ;)
[/quote]

I've never let any car sit for 6 months.  Bubble gum and duct tape if I have to, but by GOD it's gonna drive under its own power.  And maybe that's why I have no problem driving thousands of miles every year in my car, I know I'll be able to fix it with roadside trash if I have to.  >:D

McFred - you seem to be missing some torque in your car.  You paid a lot of extra money for an engine with no torque that drives at 4500 rpm at highway speeds and as a result gets worse gas mileage than the ecotec.  I seem to remember you having to stop for gas just outside of your hometown cause you were on fumes.  So you just be quiet over there mister  8)

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by benyeats » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm

[quote="McFred"]
Sorry, I can't help myself.  I've been watching these ecotec issue threads since 2007 and other than DP35's odd engine behaviour at AtomFest II (daignosed to be dead battery) and fiestycolumbian's recent ECU hardware issues I've not heard of any issues on the Honda drivetrains (Calscot's car nothwithstanding).  It's just too easy to make fun.  :pop:
[/quote]

And JL's cylinder head or various people's gearboxes etc

Ben

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by silver » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:50 pm

it's fun up until a point, then it's annoying and then you let your car sit in the garage for 6 months.......if finances were unlimited it would be a ton of fun but when the wallets' tight I'd just prefer things to work and not break  ;)

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by positron » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:03 pm

What fun would that be?  ;D

Sometimes it's the journey and the recovery that make this fun.. Sometimes making a repair track side with what you can scrounge, while frustrating while doing it, make some of the best stories to be told.

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by silver » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:43 pm

we're all just jealous we didn't get the trouble free honda :)

had they said would you like the cheaper ecotec, it doesn't have the power we're quoting nor do we know how to set up the intercooler / fan / dash, or would you like to pay $5000 more for a trouble free honda...

;D

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by McFred » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Sorry, I can't help myself.  I've been watching these ecotec issue threads since 2007 and other than DP35's odd engine behaviour at AtomFest II (daignosed to be dead battery) and fiestycolumbian's recent ECU hardware issues I've not heard of any issues on the Honda drivetrains (Calscot's car nothwithstanding).  It's just too easy to make fun.  :pop:

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by Gage » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:28 pm

[quote="McFred"]
[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

Mine has never had this issue, or the multitude of other Ecotec issues either.  Image
[/quote]

Oh HA HA for you Mcfred!   ;)    There may be a few other unique things about yours as well.

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by McFred » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:25 pm

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

Mine has never had this issue, or the multitude of other Ecotec issues either.  Image

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by benyeats » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:00 am

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]

In the course of investigating how prevalent this sort of thing was, I found another BMW owner who said his rear-view mirror looked like a "lava lamp". It turns out that on his car, BMW had mis-wired the liquid crystal to one of the speaker wires.

[/quote]

I may well do this to my car later

Ben

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by Terry Kennedy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:43 am

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
Yes indeed..boys and girls..those BOOBS at brammo had the coolant pump wired backwards,all this time.[/quote]

That may not have been entirely Brammo's fault. They had a rather large reject rate on wiring harnesses from their manufacturer. For anyone who visited Brammo back in the day, the large mound in the far corner of Tom's office was defective wiring harnesses.

And before anyone jumps in and says that's Brammo's fault for choosing a poor supplier or not testing, let me tell you a story:

BMW builds their main wiring harness themselves. Each one is custom built with only the options that are ordered with the car or selected as part of a "prep" option, like for the cell phone or CD changer. They do NO testing of the wirng harness - they just put it in the car and hope for the best. If something odd happens while the car is on the assembly like (like the horn blowing when the brake pedal is pressed) they'll investigate it, but there is no test plan to make sure everything works.

The selective build on harnesses is to prevent customers or dealers from ordering a low-spec car and then installing navigation, Xenon lights, and so forth. If you buy a replacement wiring harness, it comes with all of the possible options fitted. BMW figures that if you're crazy enough to pull the harness out of the car and swap it, you aren't doing it just to save a few bucks when ordering the car. Plus, stocking all the combinations would be prohibitive.

My car was built with 2 mis-wires that I know of. I found the first one shortly after delivery - the car would randomly call BMW and tell them my airbags went off. After a bunch of attempts by the dealer to fix this, I threatened to lemon-law the car. Finally they got a factory tech rep involved.

You need some background to understand the underlying problem. First, BMWs have an auto-dimming rear view mirror which consists of 2 parts - a large liquid crystal covering the whole glass, and a photo-sensor. When it detects light from the rear, it polarizes the crystal to a varying amount related to the amount of light. Second, some models of BMWs have switches in the headliner for things like BMW Concierge, Roadside Assistance, and so forth. My car has the auto-dimming mirror, but not the headliner switches (that's only available in the 5 series, not my 3).

Due to a mis-wire that routed the photo-sensor to the telephone control box, whenever there was a rapid transition from dark to light behind the car (for example, someone flashing their headlight on and off, or if they hit a pothole), the photo-sensor would cause the telephone control box to call BMW and report an accident. It didn't happen if the light level changed gradually, only if there was a rapid transition.

In the course of investigating how prevalent this sort of thing was, I found another BMW owner who said his rear-view mirror looked like a "lava lamp". It turns out that on his car, BMW had mis-wired the liquid crystal to one of the speaker wires.

The second mis-wire I found on my car was that the connector for the auxiliary audio input had 2 pins transposed. That meant that when optional aux in adapter was installed, it would not be detected by the stereo.

I actually spent over an hour in person with the Chairman / CEO of BMW USA (Tom Purves) as well as several hours on the phone with the manager of the BMW plant in Regensburg, Germany that built my car, discussing both my specific issue as well as the larger general problem - that a company can't expect final QC to be done by the dealer or the purchaser, and that stuff like this needs to be found and fixed at the factory when the car is being built. I didn't make much of a dent in their thinking, though.

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by positron » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:56 am

Being a centrifugal pump it can run "backwards" but not very well. It will always feed from the center tube and expel the outer circumference tube. Spinney things throw things outward no matter the direction. Being efficient at it, is another matter.

Re: Talk about frustration..thanks again..brammo

by silver » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:45 am

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
^DC,I thought that as well..however, the previous owner was a pretty bright guy,and this plug is quite inaccessible. I would have to say the same..employee..who left the hole open in my throttle body is the same one that messed up the plug wiring. >:( >:(

The pump was running,but backwards,so no flow. All this time...with NO intercooling at all going on.No wonder it only made like 225whp when the first owner put it on the dyno.

it's a little higher now......and we are not done.. :H: :H: ;D ;D
[/quote]

umm so what did you finish at today.


and......if the pump was running backwards and the system was hooked up backwards that would actually be 2 wrongs making a right.............by running the pump backwards you were allowing the coolant to gravity feed into the pump versus all the rest of us trying to feed into the pump from the intercooler...no wonder you didn't have IAT2 issues before.

so before you yell kick and scream maybe they got yours right and just eff'd up the rest of ours :)

Top