Ariel.Club Forum

Nicholas - swap your pads left to right & vice-versa.  If I were a squirrel, I'd bet my left nut it will cure the squeaking.  Try it before applying any goop.

[quote="Nicholas"]
Re Mini:
Obviously that's German Engineering at it's finest.

The British have a solution, but it won't be availble until Easter.  :D
[/quote]

You mean the MINI which was of course designed and built in Britain, it was one of the things BMW pillaged during their shamefull treatment of Rover.

[quote="bolus"]
OH GOD YES, please dont put any on the rotor.  Put a little on the edge of the pistons that contacts the back of the pad
[/quote]

How NOT to paint a brake caliper:

[img]http://www.tmk.com/transient/DSCF0032.jpg[/img]

Re Mini:
Obviously that's German Engineering at it's finest.

The British have a solution, but it won't be availble until Easter.  :D

Changing pads on the Atom is a ton easier than my Mini.  Besides needing to dismantle the calipers the pistons have to be rotated while being pushed in.  Who the hell thought that was a good idea

Hey, file this under silly things I never knew before...

You can remove the brake pads without removing the calipers from the rotors.

I just noticed that this was very obvious on the Alcons, and sure enough I can do it on my Wilwoods too.

Doh!

OH GOD YES, please dont put any on the rotor.  Put a little on the edge of the pistons that contacts the back of the pad

I picked up some "convenience packets" for $1.19 at the local auto store.

I'll dismantle everything tomorrow to see how they do.

Just to confirm: We put the grease between the caliper and the pad, NOT on the pad/rotor surface.

Thanks.

sorry, i meant per wheel not per pad and was using shinoo's price

yeah, plastilube tube at a BMW dealer is probably less than $5.  I think I might go pick some up

[quote="bolus"]
You are not gaining anything going to the Alcons except cost.  The pagid alcon pads are like $120 each pad and then getting the calipers and mounting hardware is going to run you about $5000 + needing new master cylinders.     I doubt you'd notice any difference in braking and you are going to get more squeaking[/quote]

The Alcon pads aren't that expensive. The 4-2-1 pads (which seems to be what most people prefer) were $195 for a complete axle set (4 pads, does both rear calipers or both front calipers) with the club discount. That's nowhere close to $480 (120 per pad).

For someone with the Wilwood (track) brake package, I'd just suggest new rotors and pads if some anti-squeal doesn't do the trick. You can't put slotted or drilled rotors on a brake lathe (well, you can, but then you need a new brake lathe ;D) so turning them is out of the question. I agree with TMI that after-the-fact slotting of the rotors like Brammo did is not a good idea - when you buy factory-slotted ones from Wilwood, the slotting is done before the rotor is heat treated. The slotted rotors on TMI Atom 3's come that way from the manufacturer).

I switched to 4-pot Alcons on the back because I had a very early version of the Brammo "race" package which had 4-pots on the front and 2-pots on the rear. Both of those calipers used custom brake pads (though the 4-pot version is now a stock Pagid size, thanks to HRP working with me on the group buy). I didn't think it would make a lot of sense to try to source two different size custom pads, so I decided to switch out the rear calipers to have my car be like later-production race package Atoms.

Of course, that opened a huge can of worms as I wound up not using anything I bought from Brammo except for the calipers themselves. For others with the old-style race package with 2-pot Alcons, I wouldn't suggest upgrading unless it was done as part of an upright upgrade from Tom or DP - in that case, all you'll need will be the new calipers and race hats from TMI - everything else for the rear of the car will be included as part of the new uprights. That just leaves the master cylinders - as I said in an earlier post, Brammo spec was .700 / .700. The early race package cars were built with various size master cylinders - most likely one 5/8 and one .700. [As a side note, I'm adding brake bias measurement to my Microdash - it will display the front/rear pressure ratio by directly measuring pressure in the brake lines. This will make adjusting the bias a breeze - just "set to a reading of X" instead of "hmmm - did I turn it 3 or 4 turns to the left?".]

[quote]How about just getting some plastilube (or other antisqueal grease) and put it on the back of the pad?[/quote]

That's an excellent idea. For the BMW, I have a small jar of some "yellow mystery goop" that stops squealing dead in its tracks.

My Alcons started squealing like a stuck pig. They had very little wear on the pads and rotors. My guess is that I'm too easy on the brakes and they glazed. I replaced with the 4-2-1's from Shinoo, which are a cooler range pad. They dust more which is fine for me because they [i]are [/i]wearing..

After one weekend event at Infineon I've shown an increase in max forward G's. We'll see at Laguna Seca, which is typically hard on brakes, in a couple weeks with new rotors and professional grade rotor to hat hardware.

Keizer will make you a wheel with no spacers that will clear the Alcons.Correct backspacing and super light. Not really a rim for rough roads,though.. ;)

[quote="Nicholas"]
Does anyone know if I can use the same master cylinder with the Alcons as I already have for the Wilwoods?
[/quote]

Brammo spec was .700 front, .700 rear. You'd have to see what you have on there now, and whether the front and rear are the same sizes.

[quote="Nicholas"]
4. Upgrade to Alcons. :)
Yeah, I'm probably not going to go this route, but...
I would still need to change out the rotors - but they use the same rotors as the Wilwood.
I would need to purchase new calipers (Alcon CAR3653D01ASLL & CAR3653D01ASRL)
I'm not sure what mounting brackets I'd need.
I'm also concerned about my front wheels, I have the 5-spoke wheels, and I'm not sure that they clear the Alcons.
I don't think that the rear wheels whould have a problem, as they're 16", but not too sure on this.
I don't know if I would need to do all 4 wheels, or just the front ones.

Alcons.
Acording to the Brammo user manual, they Alcons are 4-piston 34.9mm calipers.
(Alcon CAR3653D01ASLL & CAR3653D01ASRL)
However, when I search the Alcon website, I cannot seem to find this caliper, and I cant find anyone selling it.
I don't know if this is only available through TMI, and I also don't know what adapter brackets I need from TMI in order to install it.
[/quote]

The Alcon calipers are in a sort of limbo where they are a valid part and there's even an Alcon engineering drawing for them, but they're not a stocked item (built to order). I tried to get pricing on them from HRP (they're a major Alcon distributor) but they sent me to TMI (actually, they sent TMI to me :o). TMI tells me that the price Brammo was charging per caliper was less than what Alcon was charging Brammo. The price from Brammo was $369.38 with a listed cost of $263.84.

[url=http://www.tmk.com/transient/CAR36I01.29_181_1.pdf]Engineering drawing[/url]
[url=http://www.tmk.com/transient/92_434.pdf]Alcon numbering scheme[/url]

For the rears, you will also need new rotor hats, AA-UP-60 at $130 each from TMI (Brammo was $91, but see above). The mounting hardware is $9/wheel from TMI or you can source it locally.

You'll need new brackets for your uprights, or get new uprights (which include brackets) from Tom or DP.

I believe the only wheels that clear 4-pot Alcons are the Team Dynamics 12-spoke.

You should hear my alcons.  once they get hot on the track they start letting off this piercing squeal like a pig in heat when breaking hard.  At least it tells me when they are fully warmed up.  Almost every stop light they sounds like an old jalopy