Ariel.Club Forum

I am getting my car checked out today. It looks like  I have the new rod ends. I would be pretty upset if they were in any way failing given that I have never been on the track with the car and am running ES100s.

Why are the rod ends so fragile on this car?? I know Terry never went on the track with his car.

[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="maverick1"]
Does driver and passenger weight have any effect on the longevity of the Rod ends? For instance would they last longer in a car driven by a driver who weighs 160 pounds vs a 240 pound driver? Just curious if weight might effect longevity.
Cheersâ?¢
[/quote]

Almost certainly.  The rod-end problem is to do with high cornering forces, i.e. people with semi-slick type tyres have had problems, having a heavier passenger could lead to heaver cornering forces

Ben
[/quote]
Ben....looks like a diet is in order=less wear and tear on the car.
Cheersâ?¢

[quote="maverick1"]
Does driver and passenger weight have any effect on the longevity of the Rod ends? For instance would they last longer in a car driven by a driver who weighs 160 pounds vs a 240 pound driver? Just curious if weight might effect longevity.
Cheersâ?¢
[/quote]

Almost certainly.  The rod-end problem is to do with high cornering forces, i.e. people with semi-slick type tyres have had problems, having a heavier passenger could lead to heaver cornering forces

Ben

Does driver and passenger weight have any effect on the longevity of the Rod ends? For instance would they last longer in a car driven by a driver who weighs 160 pounds vs a 240 pound driver? Just curious if weight might effect longevity.
Cheersâ?¢

[quote="DarthChicken"]I do service for a rally team in Oregon, and two weekends ago we did the wild west rally up in Washington.  Over beers, I brought the whole "replace your rod ends every 3000 miles" comment, and a few of the guys looked at me a little weird.

One of them used to do baha racing.  They used "Heim" joints, and said "don't use rod ends, use Heim joints, we never had one break out in the desert".  So, I got home and looked up what a Heim joint is... and what do you know, its another name for rod end.

But it begs the question - would using the highest quality rods ends (or heim joints or whatever) reduce the need to service this part, or even make it a non-replacement part?  If there is good enough ones out there to avoid being broken on a baha car, surely we can find something that will work on the atom that will last a good deal longer.... right?
[/quote]

I think the 3000 miles may have come from a suggestion I made to Brammo to *inspect* them every 3000 miles. Perhaps they're being overly cautious after my spectacular failure.

Rod ends have different names depending on who you talk to. The UK has a different trade name for them. Apparently this came from the companies selected by the governments to duplicate this ingenious part found on a captured WWII German aircraft.

If you could have an infinitely strong, infinitely reliable rod end, the force that currently makes it fail will cause something else to fail, which may be less pleasant. My suspicion for the size 6 suspension parts is that the "something else" would be the bellcrank anchor into the frame. The yellow SPM / SPW parts on the early cars were simply a part that wasn't strong enough for all possible forces acting on it.

The early signs of a failure on a SPM/SPW part is the injected Nylon liner starting to deform or fall out. On an AM/AB part, I suspect it would be the pressed-in flange starting to come out, but that would require *lots* more force. Wear-and-tear on an AM/AB part will be from grit (road dirt, etc) getting into the race and causing wear or binding of the ball against the Teflon liner.

This will be covered in detail in my "Owner performed maintenance" seminar.

I have the old style that must be changed out.  I'm replacing them with a mix of currently recommended and uber-upgraded types (due to availability limitations).

[quote="The Masked Spaz"]
Regardless of the Baja runners claims, heim joints (what we use in the Atom suspension) do wear out.  First they get sloppy, then they break. 

...and yes, you CAN upgrade them to make them stronger (as I posted earlier in this thread).  It gets more expensive, though, and you still have to replace them eventually (depending on the stresses they experience).  It's also a function of joint size vs. stress, too.  We could potentially use rod ends that have very long useful lives, but they'd have to be significantly larger (thus heavier), to the point of affecting the design philosophy of the car.
[/quote]
Spaz, I was just wondering if you had the origional yellowish (Terry's)ones that needed to be upgraded, or do you have the silver ones and just think it's time to change them out?
cheers

[quote="The Masked Spaz"]
Nah, not afraid of changing these out.  Just thinking it'd be cool for those who haven't done it before to see it done.
[/quote]

They're all pretty easy except for the lower 10's on the rears. You will need an alignment afterwards, of course.

Regardless of the Baja runners claims, heim joints (what we use in the Atom suspension) do wear out.  First they get sloppy, then they break. 

...and yes, you CAN upgrade them to make them stronger (as I posted earlier in this thread).  It gets more expensive, though, and you still have to replace them eventually (depending on the stresses they experience).  It's also a function of joint size vs. stress, too.  We could potentially use rod ends that have very long useful lives, but they'd have to be significantly larger (thus heavier), to the point of affecting the design philosophy of the car.

I have to mention this... I've been keeping quiet, but I gotta ask.

I do service for a rally team in Oregon, and two weekends ago we did the wild west rally up in Washington.  Over beers, I brought the whole "replace your rod ends every 3000 miles" comment, and a few of the guys looked at me a little weird.

One of them used to do baha racing.  They used "Heim" joints, and said "don't use rod ends, use Heim joints, we never had one break out in the desert".  So, I got home and looked up what a Heim joint is... and what do you know, its another name for rod end.

But it begs the question - would using the highest quality rods ends (or heim joints or whatever) reduce the need to service this part, or even make it a non-replacement part?  If there is good enough ones out there to avoid being broken on a baha car, surely we can find something that will work on the atom that will last a good deal longer.... right?

Good chance that Randy will have some at Atomfest

Nah, not afraid of changing these out.  Just thinking it'd be cool for those who haven't done it before to see it done.

BTW, HRPWorld is out of most of these rod ends!  I had to get the next higher tier of rod ends (but still had to mix & match a bit) to make it this round of rod end replacements.  These rod ends are supposed to last up to three times as long, though they cost significantly more.  For those of you who are interested, here's the uprated part #'s:

AM-6T can be upgraded to PRM-6T
AB-6T can be upgraded to PRB-6T
Need 4 each for suspension arms, 2 each for steering rack so A total of 6 each

AM-10T can be upgraded to PRB-10T
Need 2 each for each rear wheel, 1 each for each front wheel so A total of 6

[quote="rfmarz"]
It seems that there is a lot to learn!
[/quote]


Very much  so,  but its mostly all fun

It seems that there is a lot to learn!

Thank you kindly for the part # info, Bolus!  Ordered a set for immediate delivery, should now have them on-hand for installation at Atomfest.  It'll be a nice experience to change these with a lot of friends about.  Mebbe we'll learn us something.